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on this episode of skeptico

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a show about rules

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when to break them still hanging out at

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the after party and uh with me uh Tupac

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Shakur all right all right believe in

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death row East believe in that for real

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if you believe in God believe in death

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row East and when to follow them

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I accept the rules you know laboratory

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evidence fine that's all we will look at

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reasoning fine that's all I will base my

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argument on I will never appeal to my

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own personal subjective insight and you

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go a long way it's enough to win after

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this transition has been accepted then

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we can review the rules of the game that

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first clip was from 1996 Tupac Shakur

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who I included because he was kind of

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this for breaking rules and famously

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said play the game but don't let the

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game play you and the second was from

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our excellent excellent guest Dr

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Bernardo Castro who has been on the show

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for I highly respect is truly one of the

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leaders in Paradigm change from

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biological robot meaningless Universe to

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wherever we go next now the rules game

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thing really has a lot of different

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meanings as this interview goes on stick

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around and I think you'll see what I

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mean

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welcome to skeptica where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics I'm your host Alex akaris

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and today I'm so excited to welcome back

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my longtime friend a lot of years here

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more than most people would probably

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even realize and one of the great

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thinkers of our time when it comes to

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let me get this right an academic level

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argument for the mental nature of

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reality

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or what I like to say the argument

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against the idea that we're all

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biological rules in a meaningless

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universe I'm talking of course about

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Bernardo castrip

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fantastic Bernardo it's great to have

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you here welcome

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great to be here Alex uh we haven't seen

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each other for too long last time we saw

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each other in person was

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2016 wasn't it it's it's my it boggles

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the mind how long it's been already it

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was up at uh you were with Deepak Chopra

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yes up in Carlsbad at Deepak

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yeah and then you drove down I think

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you have drove up same thing I live

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right I live very close to there yeah

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yeah same thing yeah but no it's awesome

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so Bernardo let's start with this you

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have a new gig since we last chatted you

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are now the executive director head

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Concho Essentia Foundation tell us tell

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us about that

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wow that's something that uh had been

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looming in my life already for several

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years but I had code feet I didn't want

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to leave the high-tech world because for

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me it was not only you know the way I

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earned my living but it was a family you

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know the company worked for asml

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um was like family for me but

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um yeah eventually there came the

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lockdown and then I lost that social

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aspect of my work anyway and I had a

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health condition that made me

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re-evaluate the way I make my decisions

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and now I don't make any choice based on

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what I stand to lose but based on what

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still has to be done

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and Fred matz or who you see there to

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the left who is the founder of Essentia

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Foundation had been asking me for for

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quite a while to do this with him and

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others and in 2020 I decided to take the

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plunge you know my life is first and

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foremost about philosophy of Mind

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ontology and technology has been

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relegated to the level of a hobby now

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now I build my own little computers in

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the Attic late in the late at night you

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should remind people about your former

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life because it's not only quite

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impressive but it also gives you a

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certain grounding that we've often spoke

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about on on this show so maybe you want

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to just go over that part of your bio

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well my first education was Computer

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Engineering I have a doctorate in

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computer engineering I was 26 when I got

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that I used to work at CERN that was my

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first job I worked on the data

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acquisition system of the atlas

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experiment part of the Large Hadron

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Collider

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then I did my I worked for corporate

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research at Phillips I founded a company

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that eventually was bought by Intel over

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a decade ago it was called silicon Hive

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now it's Intel Eindhoven

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then I went to asml which is a company

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that everybody the whole world depends

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on you never heard of them probably

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because it's not a consumer company it

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sells to businesses like you know

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Samsung tsmc chip makers and I worked

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there for 15 years I was doing strategy

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Business Development you know technology

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and science driven strategy

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um and in parallel to that I was doing

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philosophy as well for the past 15 years

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as well and and now for two years the

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roles have been reversed I do have a

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doctorating philosophy uh but philosophy

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always took a back seat in my life you

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know if you count the number of hours

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um and now it's the other way around I

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spend most of my time now in philosophy

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promoting mainly other people's ideas

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through Essentia foundation and trying

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to you know wake people up to the notion

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that um idealism the world view that

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entails mind being fundamental is not

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only something that you need first

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person spiritual insight to think is the

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truth

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um you can make an exceedingly strong

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case for idealism based purely on reason

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and and laboratory evidence and that's

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what Essentia Foundation tries to to to

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promote this reality that you can make a

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rational empirical case for for idealism

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without direct introspective Insight

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without spiritual Insight so you know

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the last time we spoke you were I guess

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just becoming engaged in this battle

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this struggle that you saw as necessary

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part of a paradigm change so if there is

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going to be this Paradigm change from

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the ridiculous

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reductionistic materialistic to

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something else whatever that else is and

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you're proposing something else that

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that takes a certain grinding of the

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gears that you have to get in there and

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be busy doing and have to kind of face

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forward publicly in order to do that so

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I pulled up you know a century

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Foundation you're offering a free

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absolutely free totally free 100 free

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six hour course which I guess would be

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kind of a a companion to you know your a

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lot of the work that people can find on

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your excellent website which is still at

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metaphysical speculations but the URL is

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bernardocastrip.com and there's just a

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ton of stuff there so I guess I mean

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let's

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pump it a little bit

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the course and maybe any comment on what

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it takes to make a paradigm change to

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kind of Grease those wheels that don't

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want to turn

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well I think you cannot fight two

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battles at the same time you cannot

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fight a battle for changing the rules of

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the game because the rules don't offer a

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Level Playing Field and they don't

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and then for winning the game so you

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can't do these two things at the same

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time unfortunately so the the choice

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we've made was okay we accept the rules

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of the game as they are which favor uh

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reasoning and laboratory empirical

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evidence of over direct introspective

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insight and widespread anecdotal

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evidence now are these rules Fair no do

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they offer a Level Playing Field no but

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with this we chose our bet so we chose

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to fight according to the existing rules

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which do not offer a Level Playing Field

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but we think we can still win

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nonetheless even according to the

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present rules of the game so that's what

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we do and that's what I've been trying

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to do now for years I accept the rules

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you know laboratory evidence fine that's

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all we will look at reasoning fine

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that's all I will base my argument on I

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will never appeal to my own personal

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subjective Insight I will only focus on

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rational reasoning and you go a long way

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it's enough to win after this transition

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has been accepted and we have we are

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deep into that process now there's a lot

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happening under the surface after people

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realize okay that this is just really

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reasoning and evidence-based conclusions

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then we can review the rules of the game

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because we always mature even as a

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civilization and we will see that there

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are things that we are throwing away you

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know the baby we are throwing away

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together is the bath water but that

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comes later now we just have to fight

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according to the present rules okay so

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we are going to make a smooth but not

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totally smooth transition to kind of the

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skeptical portion of our show

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which we were chuckling about you

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understand kind of what's coming and I

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appreciate that about you that we can't

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actually great so here here I've pulled

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up these very very impressive

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academic Advisory Board and there's a

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bunch of names on there that people

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recognize several have been on the show

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but I wanted to bring attention to I

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think you'll get a kick out of this

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professor Jeffrey [\h__\h] Rice

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University because I wanted to play for

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you

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this clip this is an interview that he

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recently did or was on and he's there

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with uh Whitney streber and Diana Walsh

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basalka who we will talk about and so

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you you know Jeff obviously yes yes

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do you know Whitley

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no I have never met Wheatley I know who

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he is but I have never met him no okay

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so author of communion probably this is

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Whitley strieber we're talking about

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author of communion probably the most

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important alien contact book ever

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published and co-author with Jeff of the

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supernatural why the Unexplained is real

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and you know the other thing I just add

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about just to make sure you know has uh

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shared contact experiences so has alien

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contact experiences shared with other

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people to go wow yeah that was we all

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saw it together kind of thing and also

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has after death communication

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experiences that are verified in

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different ways we can kind of take that

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for what it is and then he has an

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implant as well which we can talk about

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because it kind of crosses over into the

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physical you know you like the Jacques

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valet multi-layered isotope kind of

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thing well this is has similar things to

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it but

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with that let's play this clip because I

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think you're going to enjoy this and let

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me know if you can't hear this

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that we all

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in some strange way agree on or is this

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absolutely real

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when I touch my face or am I touching me

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or is an idea

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creating the impression that I'm somehow

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here

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you're all familiar with uh called the

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idea of the World by Bernardo Castro

277
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:29,100
which Jeff introduced me to in which I

278
00:12:34,610 --> 00:12:31,680
have now read about four times I'm going

279
00:12:35,690 --> 00:12:34,620
to hopefully get Bernardo on the show if

280
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:35,700
he can ever

281
00:12:45,170 --> 00:12:40,079
realize that that I'm not simply saucer

282
00:12:47,329 --> 00:12:45,180
Sam but we'll see that's not easy uh so

283
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:47,339
where are we now because we're looking

284
00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:50,399
at physical objects they do things they

285
00:12:54,650 --> 00:12:52,380
shouldn't be able to do

286
00:12:56,990 --> 00:12:54,660
they don't make sense

287
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:57,000
the implants in my ear there's a piece

288
00:13:02,269 --> 00:12:59,760
of debris here in this office other

289
00:13:06,009 --> 00:13:02,279
pieces have been extensively studied as

290
00:13:09,230 --> 00:13:06,019
we all know more than we can even say

291
00:13:11,389 --> 00:13:09,240
and yet

292
00:13:14,269 --> 00:13:11,399
that's not the answer

293
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:14,279
I love Whitley he's been on the show a

294
00:13:17,690 --> 00:13:15,839
couple times and then I've been on his

295
00:13:19,069 --> 00:13:17,700
show but he doesn't like me as much

296
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:19,079
anymore because I came down on him

297
00:13:24,769 --> 00:13:21,839
pretty hard on the Jesus thing but tell

298
00:13:27,410 --> 00:13:24,779
us what you think well first of all will

299
00:13:30,650 --> 00:13:27,420
you go on Whitley's show

300
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:30,660
I would yeah okay okay I I will Through

301
00:13:35,930 --> 00:13:33,360
the Grapevine to have conversations I

302
00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:35,940
will talk to anyone oh I I mean I think

303
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:37,620
he obviously has a lot of respect for

304
00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:39,240
your work and I think you two would

305
00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:42,000
enjoy it but the main question I guess

306
00:13:47,090 --> 00:13:45,000
is how are you processing

307
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:47,100
the UFO thing

308
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:48,480
because

309
00:13:55,129 --> 00:13:51,600
you know I read this a couple years ago

310
00:13:59,870 --> 00:13:55,139
in 2020 the phenomenon A Brief Review

311
00:14:03,590 --> 00:13:59,880
you did of the movie and it sounded like

312
00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:03,600
you were kind of taking baby steps into

313
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:07,320
this thing where are you today in any

314
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,120
thoughts on where you are versus where

315
00:14:13,370 --> 00:14:11,760
[\h__\h] is versus where Whitley strieber

316
00:14:16,009 --> 00:14:13,380
is

317
00:14:17,930 --> 00:14:16,019
I think the UFO phenomenon or the UAP

318
00:14:20,509 --> 00:14:17,940
phenomenon whatever you want to call it

319
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:20,519
I don't care about the name it's one of

320
00:14:24,650 --> 00:14:22,320
the top three mysteries we have in front

321
00:14:27,710 --> 00:14:24,660
of us today number one is time

322
00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:27,720
a mystery of time that that is of that's

323
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:30,300
an overwhelming mystery because it's

324
00:14:37,129 --> 00:14:34,079
with us well all the time

325
00:14:38,930 --> 00:14:37,139
um and it holds the answers to to many

326
00:14:41,629 --> 00:14:38,940
things understanding the nature of time

327
00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:41,639
is the way to understanding our true

328
00:14:45,290 --> 00:14:43,500
identity the nature of reality

329
00:14:48,350 --> 00:14:45,300
everything that's number one it's right

330
00:14:51,949 --> 00:14:48,360
up there but number two

331
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:51,959
it maybe the UFO UAP phenomenon because

332
00:14:58,910 --> 00:14:54,959
it is something that defies not only

333
00:15:00,050 --> 00:14:58,920
known physics it defies Aristotelian

334
00:15:02,509 --> 00:15:00,060
logic

335
00:15:05,870 --> 00:15:02,519
the behavior of

336
00:15:07,370 --> 00:15:05,880
the phenomena is not a logical Behavior

337
00:15:11,170 --> 00:15:07,380
a lot of the times

338
00:15:15,410 --> 00:15:11,180
and to defend myself from

339
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:15,420
the the presupposition of of what you're

340
00:15:21,650 --> 00:15:18,000
saying I did write a book in which I was

341
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:21,660
very open to the the UFO UAP phenomenon

342
00:15:26,269 --> 00:15:24,000
many years ago called meaning in

343
00:15:29,870 --> 00:15:26,279
absurdity

344
00:15:31,009 --> 00:15:29,880
um and so I I've been open about it that

345
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:31,019
I think

346
00:15:36,590 --> 00:15:34,800
thank you this is a profound mystery a

347
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:36,600
real mystery

348
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:40,560
um that will only yield to us

349
00:15:44,569 --> 00:15:42,480
if we

350
00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:44,579
open our minds

351
00:15:49,090 --> 00:15:47,160
in a way that we can't even contemplate

352
00:15:52,490 --> 00:15:49,100
today because it would require

353
00:15:55,490 --> 00:15:52,500
revising even our logic not only our

354
00:15:57,170 --> 00:15:55,500
physics to require revising on our

355
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:57,180
understanding of reality of self of

356
00:16:02,389 --> 00:15:59,279
consciousness of everything

357
00:16:04,370 --> 00:16:02,399
yeah two two points to that because I

358
00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:04,380
think that to me those are baby steps

359
00:16:09,949 --> 00:16:05,760
and kind of looking in the wrong

360
00:16:11,210 --> 00:16:09,959
direction two takeaways from Whitley and

361
00:16:13,730 --> 00:16:11,220
then we'll go down and talk about Dan

362
00:16:16,430 --> 00:16:13,740
Walsh basulk in a minute it's not about

363
00:16:18,410 --> 00:16:16,440
UFOs or uaps which I hate because it's

364
00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:18,420
just a psyop the UAP just to confuse

365
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:19,980
people and I thought it was about UFOs

366
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,560
no it's uaps this new acronym it's not

367
00:16:26,509 --> 00:16:24,959
about that it's about ET

368
00:16:28,670 --> 00:16:26,519
and that's what Whitley's saying

369
00:16:31,129 --> 00:16:28,680
Whitley's saying it's about my contact

370
00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:31,139
experience everyone who's at the

371
00:16:36,110 --> 00:16:33,420
Forefront of this field all those people

372
00:16:38,689 --> 00:16:36,120
in that interview are saying it's about

373
00:16:40,069 --> 00:16:38,699
E.T it's about contact when Rick

374
00:16:41,449 --> 00:16:40,079
Strassman at the University of New

375
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:41,459
Mexico

376
00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:43,519
gave his subjects for the first time

377
00:16:49,970 --> 00:16:46,620
ordained by the great government drug

378
00:16:52,129 --> 00:16:49,980
taking experimenting arm that it had

379
00:16:54,350 --> 00:16:52,139
when he gave him the DMT

380
00:16:57,769 --> 00:16:54,360
they went into that other realm and

381
00:17:00,050 --> 00:16:57,779
there was E.T and E.T said

382
00:17:03,949 --> 00:17:00,060
we've been waiting for you glad you're

383
00:17:06,409 --> 00:17:03,959
here right so that's that's in our

384
00:17:08,990 --> 00:17:06,419
record and then you know further when

385
00:17:11,150 --> 00:17:09,000
the you know famous near-death

386
00:17:13,970 --> 00:17:11,160
experience researcher Ken ring

387
00:17:16,010 --> 00:17:13,980
when he did the same when he tried to

388
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:16,020
kind of cross-correlate the results of

389
00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:18,959
near-death experience accounts with

390
00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:21,780
alien contact accounts he said wow

391
00:17:27,409 --> 00:17:24,900
there's so so many similarities here and

392
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:27,419
that's work has been picked up more

393
00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:29,760
currently by like Ray Hernandez in the

394
00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:31,320
free group who did the first academic

395
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:34,980
survey of contact experiences and the

396
00:17:40,370 --> 00:17:36,720
same so

397
00:17:42,289 --> 00:17:40,380
you know this is what matters from a

398
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:42,299
Consciousness perspective because if you

399
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:45,600
go and talk to the the UFO people if you

400
00:17:51,770 --> 00:17:48,480
will they're all about Consciousness now

401
00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:51,780
in in a way that kind of always ticks me

402
00:17:54,890 --> 00:17:53,460
off because it's like they have this

403
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,900
kind of kindergarten understanding or

404
00:17:58,190 --> 00:17:56,160
they just walked into this new world

405
00:18:00,350 --> 00:17:58,200
they go Consciousness Consciousness

406
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:00,360
Consciousness and they don't know quite

407
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:03,120
how to how to deal with it so that's why

408
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:05,039
I guess I'm poking at you a little bit

409
00:18:11,870 --> 00:18:08,960
baby steps UFO is about

410
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:11,880
Consciousness it's about the question I

411
00:18:18,289 --> 00:18:15,440
always ask is does ET have an nde

412
00:18:19,250 --> 00:18:18,299
that gets to the that gets to the heart

413
00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:19,260
of it

414
00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:21,480
what are your thoughts

415
00:18:28,370 --> 00:18:24,780
um I will admit to the accusation of

416
00:18:30,830 --> 00:18:28,380
baby steps and that's enough that um yes

417
00:18:33,169 --> 00:18:30,840
that that's how I go about things

418
00:18:35,390 --> 00:18:33,179
um and it may be wrong because the

419
00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:35,400
urgency of our situation is just

420
00:18:39,289 --> 00:18:37,500
overwhelming we may not have enough time

421
00:18:42,250 --> 00:18:39,299
for baby steps

422
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:42,260
um regarding the ET part

423
00:18:49,250 --> 00:18:45,840
I sort of I pre-assumed that every time

424
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:49,260
we talk about uaps UFOs whatever there

425
00:18:55,789 --> 00:18:52,320
is conscious agency behind those things

426
00:18:58,669 --> 00:18:55,799
so to me to talk about the same thing I

427
00:19:01,490 --> 00:18:58,679
don't think uaps and UFOs are

428
00:19:03,529 --> 00:19:01,500
natural phenomena or mechanistic

429
00:19:06,770 --> 00:19:03,539
phenomena they are Guided by an

430
00:19:09,409 --> 00:19:06,780
intelligence and my allusion to a logic

431
00:19:10,909 --> 00:19:09,419
that is not Aristotelian logic was a

432
00:19:13,070 --> 00:19:10,919
sort of implicit recognition of that

433
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:13,080
because it's only conscious agents

434
00:19:18,049 --> 00:19:16,080
agents that use logic to determine their

435
00:19:21,049 --> 00:19:18,059
behavior or something that is beyond our

436
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:21,059
logic so I I grant you that what makes

437
00:19:29,690 --> 00:19:24,240
it interesting regarding the UAP UFO

438
00:19:32,270 --> 00:19:29,700
phenomena is agency now you said ET

439
00:19:36,409 --> 00:19:32,280
um what where I would take perhaps a

440
00:19:39,529 --> 00:19:36,419
step larger than most take is in not

441
00:19:43,490 --> 00:19:39,539
recognizing that it's a done deal that

442
00:19:44,590 --> 00:19:43,500
ET is extraterrestrial that ET is some

443
00:19:47,450 --> 00:19:44,600
kind of

444
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:47,460
four-dimensional like we are biological

445
00:19:51,890 --> 00:19:50,160
entity from another solar system that

446
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:51,900
came here in some kind of beryllium

447
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:55,440
spaceship I think there is a lot more

448
00:20:01,909 --> 00:19:59,280
mystery to the Earth to our Locus in

449
00:20:05,810 --> 00:20:01,919
space-time and then we there imagine

450
00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:05,820
today so is is it foreign foreign it's

451
00:20:09,890 --> 00:20:07,500
foreign to our culture to our

452
00:20:12,049 --> 00:20:09,900
civilization to our world view to our

453
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:12,059
understanding of what is what and what

454
00:20:16,250 --> 00:20:13,039
is not

455
00:20:19,150 --> 00:20:16,260
but it may be geographically speaking or

456
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:19,160
cosmologically speaking from here too

457
00:20:24,289 --> 00:20:21,600
and that to me is even more

458
00:20:26,810 --> 00:20:24,299
mind-boggling than beryllium spaceships

459
00:20:28,570 --> 00:20:26,820
coming from the series yeah you know the

460
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:28,580
problem I always have with that is

461
00:20:32,510 --> 00:20:30,720
twofold and I guess we'll get to the

462
00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:32,520
first part of the fold in a minute in

463
00:20:36,169 --> 00:20:34,260
terms of who's controlling that

464
00:20:38,510 --> 00:20:36,179
narrative and what the dominant

465
00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:38,520
narrative is today but the second thing

466
00:20:41,570 --> 00:20:39,900
I guess that I'd say and it's going to

467
00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:41,580
relate to the second main topic I want

468
00:20:45,529 --> 00:20:43,320
to talk about in terms of how we

469
00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:45,539
interface with science and that is that

470
00:20:50,270 --> 00:20:48,299
you know in this paper of yours that I'm

471
00:20:52,909 --> 00:20:50,280
going to quote in a minute science isn't

472
00:20:56,270 --> 00:20:52,919
about proof but science is about

473
00:20:59,690 --> 00:20:56,280
evidence and I would say that science is

474
00:21:01,669 --> 00:20:59,700
about the burden of proof and that we

475
00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:01,679
are in this constantly

476
00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:04,380
changing game of where that burden of

477
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:07,860
proof lies and whether it lies with what

478
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:10,080
we might say is the kind of conventional

479
00:21:15,409 --> 00:21:13,440
or mainstream opinion or whether it lies

480
00:21:16,909 --> 00:21:15,419
with a new paradigm that's being

481
00:21:18,529 --> 00:21:16,919
established and we could trace that all

482
00:21:21,169 --> 00:21:18,539
the way back to your idealism I think

483
00:21:23,150 --> 00:21:21,179
the burden of proof has clearly shifted

484
00:21:27,289 --> 00:21:23,160
and you've been instrumental in shifting

485
00:21:30,649 --> 00:21:27,299
it to those who want to prop up you know

486
00:21:32,750 --> 00:21:30,659
scientific materialism physicalism that

487
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:32,760
that has been falsified and the burden

488
00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:35,340
of proof is on them to falsify idealism

489
00:21:40,130 --> 00:21:38,220
or to jump on board with Max Planck and

490
00:21:41,810 --> 00:21:40,140
Consciousness is fundamental but I don't

491
00:21:44,450 --> 00:21:41,820
want to digress too far because I would

492
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:44,460
say the same thing is true here with the

493
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:48,240
ET UFO thing number one the the I'm glad

494
00:21:52,330 --> 00:21:50,640
you concede the point that we're we're

495
00:21:56,090 --> 00:21:52,340
not talking about

496
00:21:58,970 --> 00:21:56,100
UFOs were talking about the intelligence

497
00:22:02,029 --> 00:21:58,980
that is the agency the intelligence I

498
00:22:04,669 --> 00:22:02,039
would say that is behind that technology

499
00:22:07,250 --> 00:22:04,679
that we're observing through the dials

500
00:22:10,010 --> 00:22:07,260
as you like to call them on our on our

501
00:22:11,630 --> 00:22:10,020
plane our airplane on our dashboard that

502
00:22:13,610 --> 00:22:11,640
tells us what we are sensing in the

503
00:22:15,890 --> 00:22:13,620
outside world but the second part of

504
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:15,900
that is that I think if we look at this

505
00:22:21,409 --> 00:22:18,960
from an anthropological standpoint if we

506
00:22:23,149 --> 00:22:21,419
look at the evidence

507
00:22:25,130 --> 00:22:23,159
cultures throughout time has been

508
00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:25,140
telling us they come from the Stars if

509
00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:26,940
we look at the Native American accounts

510
00:22:33,070 --> 00:22:29,820
here I've interviewed already six color

511
00:22:35,930 --> 00:22:33,080
Clark other people just recently the the

512
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:35,940
all these Traditions are replete with

513
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:37,919
stories star people star people star

514
00:22:41,930 --> 00:22:39,840
people they told us they came from the

515
00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:41,940
stars the ancient art tells us they came

516
00:22:47,930 --> 00:22:45,000
with the Stars I say the burden of proof

517
00:22:50,510 --> 00:22:47,940
is on those who claim they are not from

518
00:22:52,909 --> 00:22:50,520
the stars and those who claim that the

519
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:52,919
little pile of slag that Jacques valet

520
00:22:58,250 --> 00:22:55,440
walks around in her pocket and Whitley

521
00:23:01,730 --> 00:22:58,260
mentioned is on his desk is not evidence

522
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:01,740
of a craft of whether it's made out of

523
00:23:07,310 --> 00:23:04,320
whatever material is a craft I think the

524
00:23:09,770 --> 00:23:07,320
burden of proof has has clearly shifted

525
00:23:13,310 --> 00:23:09,780
maybe you maybe you don't agree maybe

526
00:23:15,409 --> 00:23:13,320
you um I I don't categorically state

527
00:23:17,330 --> 00:23:15,419
that they are not from the stars because

528
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:17,340
I don't know and I don't think anybody

529
00:23:22,610 --> 00:23:19,919
knows I would just be open to the

530
00:23:25,549 --> 00:23:22,620
possibility that they are not and to to

531
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:25,559
latch onto the very things you refer to

532
00:23:30,289 --> 00:23:28,559
that cultures throughout history have

533
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:30,299
have been talking about this and they

534
00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:31,679
have been saying that they are from the

535
00:23:36,169 --> 00:23:33,840
Stars another way to look at the very

536
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,179
same evidence is to realize that

537
00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:38,880
cultures throughout history have been

538
00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:41,100
talking about this in other words they

539
00:23:45,529 --> 00:23:43,080
have always been here

540
00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:45,539
which is consistent with the notion that

541
00:23:49,970 --> 00:23:47,400
they are from here because they have

542
00:23:53,450 --> 00:23:49,980
always been here and if it's an

543
00:23:57,890 --> 00:23:53,460
expedition why is it taking thousands of

544
00:24:00,169 --> 00:23:57,900
years to no meet the goals of this

545
00:24:02,450 --> 00:24:00,179
Expedition on the other hand if they are

546
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:02,460
from here then there is no go there just

547
00:24:06,049 --> 00:24:03,840
from here they are here because they are

548
00:24:07,490 --> 00:24:06,059
from here know what I mean uh they're

549
00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:07,500
the Watchers they've been here all the

550
00:24:10,370 --> 00:24:08,760
time they watch whenever they want

551
00:24:12,890 --> 00:24:10,380
they've planted in the garden and they

552
00:24:15,649 --> 00:24:12,900
can come back multiple multiple species

553
00:24:18,289 --> 00:24:15,659
multiple multiple agendas

554
00:24:20,690 --> 00:24:18,299
that's my read of the data but I want to

555
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:20,700
play for you another clip from that same

556
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:24,720
interview with the Fantastic Diana Walsh

557
00:24:28,669 --> 00:24:26,940
pasoka do you know who she is I heard

558
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:28,679
her name but I don't know anything about

559
00:24:33,649 --> 00:24:31,679
her I know okay she wrote a really

560
00:24:36,830 --> 00:24:33,659
important book called American Cosmic

561
00:24:38,990 --> 00:24:36,840
super smart uh very very dialed into

562
00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:39,000
this thing but he's with Jacques valet

563
00:24:45,409 --> 00:24:41,820
but he's with Gary Nolan very very

564
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:45,419
connected and on the Forefront of this

565
00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:47,220
whole thing let me let me play this clip

566
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:48,600
it'll take you just a minute to cue it

567
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:49,919
up sure

568
00:24:53,630 --> 00:24:52,559
so I would say that I agree with John

569
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:53,640
that we're just at the beginning

570
00:24:59,330 --> 00:24:56,280
academics

571
00:25:02,990 --> 00:24:59,340
and I think that people who do religious

572
00:25:05,570 --> 00:25:03,000
Studies have an insight into the

573
00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:05,580
historicity of the phenomena it's been

574
00:25:11,270 --> 00:25:07,500
around for a long time we have a lot of

575
00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:11,280
Records to you know that are documenting

576
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:14,460
the interface between humans and the

577
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:17,520
anomalous and that's very important but

578
00:25:23,270 --> 00:25:20,400
part of the reason that American Cosmic

579
00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:23,280
did rattle some cages and I won't deny

580
00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:26,760
it is that I did field research and I

581
00:25:31,789 --> 00:25:29,220
think that as academics going into this

582
00:25:33,769 --> 00:25:31,799
now we feel safe enough some of us you

583
00:25:38,269 --> 00:25:33,779
know to now that the the US government

584
00:25:42,169 --> 00:25:38,279
has acknowledged uh in June 2021 that

585
00:25:45,169 --> 00:25:42,179
there are these anomalous things and so

586
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:45,179
academics are now studying this

587
00:25:50,690 --> 00:25:47,640
but I think that the academics who have

588
00:25:53,330 --> 00:25:50,700
studied this can offer some advice and

589
00:25:55,370 --> 00:25:53,340
part of that is that we need to actually

590
00:25:58,970 --> 00:25:55,380
do the field research we need to get

591
00:26:00,649 --> 00:25:58,980
into the places we need to talk to

592
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:00,659
people who like you Whitley who've had

593
00:26:05,149 --> 00:26:03,840
experiences and you know we need to do

594
00:26:07,370 --> 00:26:05,159
the kinds of things that we've always

595
00:26:10,909 --> 00:26:07,380
done and we also need to acknowledge

596
00:26:14,029 --> 00:26:10,919
that why why did American Cosmic rattle

597
00:26:16,370 --> 00:26:14,039
cages because there was misinformation

598
00:26:18,409 --> 00:26:16,380
and disinformation which is there are

599
00:26:20,090 --> 00:26:18,419
two different things this info is

600
00:26:22,490 --> 00:26:20,100
intentional and we have to acknowledge

601
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:22,500
that that is part of the history here in

602
00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:24,960
the United States of this specific

603
00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:28,200
phenomena that are called now uaps and I

604
00:26:33,169 --> 00:26:30,559
think that academics have been afraid to

605
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:33,179
identify that but we can't do it with

606
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:35,360
any kind of Integrity if we don't say

607
00:26:39,649 --> 00:26:37,679
absolutely Project Blue Book was a

608
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:39,659
disinfo campaign

609
00:26:45,710 --> 00:26:42,000
um you know so and we have to develop

610
00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:45,720
now skills in order to decipher any kind

611
00:26:49,850 --> 00:26:47,460
of thing that we might want to call

612
00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:49,860
truth because you know really that's

613
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:51,240
what academics are trying to do they're

614
00:26:55,370 --> 00:26:53,279
trying to uncover things that are

615
00:26:57,649 --> 00:26:55,380
historically accurate you know factual

616
00:26:59,149 --> 00:26:57,659
so that we can move on with knowledge I

617
00:27:01,970 --> 00:26:59,159
think to jump in there with on Diana

618
00:27:04,610 --> 00:27:01,980
before I bring up a topic

619
00:27:07,330 --> 00:27:04,620
field research is the way to go about it

620
00:27:09,549 --> 00:27:07,340
feel the research and less Prejudice

621
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,559
less uh

622
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:12,000
prejudged conclusions about what is

623
00:27:16,610 --> 00:27:14,880
allowed to be real and what is not so

624
00:27:18,409 --> 00:27:16,620
I'm I'm with her on that there is

625
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,419
nothing she said that I disagree with

626
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:20,640
well we might even talk about because I

627
00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:22,080
brought it up on the screen before and

628
00:27:26,029 --> 00:27:23,400
then I just kind of mentioned it in

629
00:27:28,669 --> 00:27:26,039
passing you know one of the things you

630
00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:28,679
were drawn to in the movie that you

631
00:27:34,130 --> 00:27:31,260
reviewed the phenomenon was this

632
00:27:35,870 --> 00:27:34,140
analysis of some of the material that

633
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:35,880
people have found in particular credible

634
00:27:41,930 --> 00:27:39,120
people like Jacque Valley and that's the

635
00:27:43,549 --> 00:27:41,940
kind of stuff that would be included in

636
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,559
the field research and that's the kind

637
00:27:46,669 --> 00:27:45,360
of stuff that I guess you're kind of

638
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:46,679
calling for right

639
00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:50,880
yeah yeah so so rigorous

640
00:27:54,490 --> 00:27:52,980
um methodologically correct field

641
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:54,500
research yeah

642
00:28:01,970 --> 00:27:57,600
so but here's the other jumping off

643
00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:01,980
point on that that I really I guess

644
00:28:05,930 --> 00:28:04,260
is a huge deal to me and is something I

645
00:28:08,029 --> 00:28:05,940
want to focus on

646
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:08,039
in this interview and talk about and

647
00:28:14,029 --> 00:28:11,039
that's that we are Awash

648
00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:14,039
with disinformation not not just

649
00:28:19,149 --> 00:28:15,720
misinformation

650
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:19,159
not just junk science

651
00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:23,279
is Awash within organized very

652
00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:26,640
sophisticated and brutal at times

653
00:28:32,450 --> 00:28:29,760
effort to misinform to mislead to

654
00:28:35,450 --> 00:28:32,460
deceive people and I think just as she

655
00:28:37,370 --> 00:28:35,460
said we have to not only acknowledge

656
00:28:39,710 --> 00:28:37,380
that and acknowledge when it's happened

657
00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:39,720
but check ourselves and say are we in

658
00:28:44,269 --> 00:28:41,580
the middle of that right now is what

659
00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:44,279
coming down at us now is it is it

660
00:28:48,830 --> 00:28:46,620
misinformation is it not just junk

661
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:48,840
science is it you get my point what do

662
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:50,640
you think about that that things go

663
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:54,240
wrong often is it a fact because science

664
00:28:59,870 --> 00:28:57,360
is done by scientists and scientists are

665
00:29:02,390 --> 00:28:59,880
human but to to First acknowledge your

666
00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:02,400
point before I elaborate further let me

667
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:04,020
give you a personal example I had a

668
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:06,240
debate with a famous physicist some time

669
00:29:13,070 --> 00:29:10,799
ago zabina hosenfelder who is a

670
00:29:15,950 --> 00:29:13,080
materialist and tries to debunk

671
00:29:19,970 --> 00:29:15,960
everything that doesn't fit with

672
00:29:23,149 --> 00:29:19,980
materialism and extreme determinism and

673
00:29:25,610 --> 00:29:23,159
in the course of that debate I accused

674
00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:25,620
her of having proposed theoretical

675
00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:28,440
entities hidden variables that she never

676
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:31,260
even defined so how can we create an

677
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:33,600
experiment to find those hidden

678
00:29:37,970 --> 00:29:35,520
variables if she doesn't even Define

679
00:29:40,430 --> 00:29:37,980
what they are and she said on that

680
00:29:43,250 --> 00:29:40,440
debate live to my face that she did

681
00:29:45,409 --> 00:29:43,260
Define the hidden variables and she even

682
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:45,419
mentioned the paper in which she claims

683
00:29:49,250 --> 00:29:47,279
to have defined the hidden variables and

684
00:29:51,649 --> 00:29:49,260
when you read that paper she does know

685
00:29:53,870 --> 00:29:51,659
such a thing the paper is about a toy

686
00:29:55,789 --> 00:29:53,880
model and of hidden variables of an

687
00:29:58,669 --> 00:29:55,799
alternate universe that's much simpler

688
00:30:01,490 --> 00:29:58,679
than ours she made absolutely no attempt

689
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:01,500
to actually Define plausible hidden

690
00:30:08,810 --> 00:30:05,520
variables in other words she lied to my

691
00:30:13,130 --> 00:30:08,820
face in order to save her face during a

692
00:30:16,669 --> 00:30:13,140
debate do I think that was malicious no

693
00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:16,679
I think she did it because in her mind

694
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:19,919
that was the Lesser evil it was the

695
00:30:27,409 --> 00:30:22,559
Lesser evil to outright mislead I would

696
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,419
say lie then to acknowledge someone who

697
00:30:31,970 --> 00:30:29,520
is pushing towards a different

698
00:30:34,549 --> 00:30:31,980
conclusion from the same laboratory data

699
00:30:38,690 --> 00:30:34,559
that we both have in front of us

700
00:30:40,850 --> 00:30:38,700
so is there this information yes the the

701
00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:40,860
world is Awash with this information

702
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:44,580
from all sides because as Thomas [\h__\h]

703
00:30:51,710 --> 00:30:47,580
once said in back in the late 60s the

704
00:30:54,409 --> 00:30:51,720
data are not neutral you always bring in

705
00:30:56,269 --> 00:30:54,419
your own world view to Bear when you

706
00:30:59,149 --> 00:30:56,279
interpret the data you never have

707
00:31:01,850 --> 00:30:59,159
neutral data and and that's what's

708
00:31:03,470 --> 00:31:01,860
happening we fool ourselves and each

709
00:31:06,049 --> 00:31:03,480
other through this information what I

710
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:06,059
don't think is the case is that there is

711
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,600
a organized conspiracy that has been

712
00:31:14,029 --> 00:31:12,000
going on for decades or centuries that I

713
00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:14,039
don't take Humanity that seriously I

714
00:31:17,870 --> 00:31:16,020
don't think we are capable of that I

715
00:31:19,130 --> 00:31:17,880
think we're just stupid that's all there

716
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,140
is to it

717
00:31:23,630 --> 00:31:21,360
well she's saying something completely

718
00:31:26,570 --> 00:31:23,640
different and the data backs her up so

719
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,580
the history of Project Blue Book are you

720
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:28,559
familiar with Project Blue Book

721
00:31:34,490 --> 00:31:32,880
is an organized campaign to deceive at a

722
00:31:36,649 --> 00:31:34,500
very high level at a very orchestrated

723
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,659
level at a level that is brutal it's

724
00:31:40,430 --> 00:31:38,640
it's including going out and

725
00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:40,440
intimidating people threatening people

726
00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:41,820
with death and the death of their

727
00:31:47,630 --> 00:31:43,740
relatives unless they go along with the

728
00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:47,640
story so that happened do you know who

729
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:49,260
Richard Doty is do you know who Lou

730
00:31:52,850 --> 00:31:50,880
Elizondo is do you know either one of

731
00:31:53,810 --> 00:31:52,860
those people uh Louis song I have heard

732
00:31:56,889 --> 00:31:53,820
about him

733
00:31:58,850 --> 00:31:56,899
his predecessor if you will another

734
00:32:02,330 --> 00:31:58,860
counterintelligence agent named Richard

735
00:32:04,130 --> 00:32:02,340
Doty has come clean he hasn't come clean

736
00:32:07,130 --> 00:32:04,140
because they never come clean but is

737
00:32:09,889 --> 00:32:07,140
admitted to a disinformation campaign

738
00:32:11,870 --> 00:32:09,899
that had brutal psychological effects on

739
00:32:13,970 --> 00:32:11,880
some innocent American who had stepped

740
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:13,980
forward and said hey I'm seeing these

741
00:32:18,110 --> 00:32:16,320
UFOs out on this military base and I'm

742
00:32:20,269 --> 00:32:18,120
kind of concerned and they ran this

743
00:32:23,450 --> 00:32:20,279
whole mind game on him and the whole UFO

744
00:32:25,730 --> 00:32:23,460
community in order to discredit him and

745
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:25,740
to create this false narrative that has

746
00:32:30,049 --> 00:32:28,559
been acknowledged and put forth and I've

747
00:32:31,970 --> 00:32:30,059
had people on the show like Colonel John

748
00:32:33,470 --> 00:32:31,980
Alexander who said he should be in

749
00:32:36,049 --> 00:32:33,480
prison for he should be in Leavenworth

750
00:32:37,789 --> 00:32:36,059
you know military prison for that and

751
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:37,799
the latest iteration of that which is

752
00:32:43,370 --> 00:32:40,500
just kind of exploded is Lou Elizondo

753
00:32:44,570 --> 00:32:43,380
which was part of this latest round of

754
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:44,580
disclosure

755
00:32:50,810 --> 00:32:48,240
uh you know New York Times Leslie Kane

756
00:32:52,190 --> 00:32:50,820
Ralph Blumenthal from New York Times I

757
00:32:54,409 --> 00:32:52,200
interviewed both of them on this show

758
00:32:56,930 --> 00:32:54,419
Richard Dolan everyone comes out and

759
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:56,940
says wow this is the real deal and I

760
00:32:59,930 --> 00:32:58,320
mean I'm not the only one but I was like

761
00:33:02,210 --> 00:32:59,940
Gosh guys this sure looks like a

762
00:33:04,430 --> 00:33:02,220
political psyop to me it looks like a

763
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:04,440
rerun of Richard Doty to me and now

764
00:33:09,049 --> 00:33:06,480
that's all come to pass why would we

765
00:33:12,529 --> 00:33:09,059
believe a counter-intelligence agent

766
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:12,539
who's a professional liar that's his job

767
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:15,200
to tell us the truth about this

768
00:33:21,950 --> 00:33:17,519
important secret that they've kept

769
00:33:23,389 --> 00:33:21,960
secret for so long so I I really this is

770
00:33:26,450 --> 00:33:23,399
fundamental to what I'm talking about

771
00:33:29,690 --> 00:33:26,460
here is no it's not innocent people

772
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:29,700
making innocent mistakes it's an

773
00:33:35,389 --> 00:33:32,760
organized sophisticated attempt

774
00:33:37,130 --> 00:33:35,399
to control the narrative because the

775
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:37,140
narrative that's coming forth with the

776
00:33:43,490 --> 00:33:40,799
UFO is very pointed it's it has it has a

777
00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:43,500
different agenda a definite agenda the

778
00:33:49,850 --> 00:33:46,980
agenda is these things are a threat to

779
00:33:52,009 --> 00:33:49,860
our national security and we need a

780
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:52,019
Global Response that is from the

781
00:33:56,750 --> 00:33:54,000
beginning been where they've tried to

782
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:56,760
take the story but people have such a

783
00:34:02,389 --> 00:33:59,039
short memory that they forget that just

784
00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:02,399
a few years ago Barack Obama and George

785
00:34:06,409 --> 00:34:04,320
Bush and every one of them stood up and

786
00:34:09,770 --> 00:34:06,419
said this is not real this is not

787
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:09,780
happening when they knew it was so

788
00:34:14,030 --> 00:34:12,480
what's not real that these entities are

789
00:34:16,609 --> 00:34:14,040
a threat to us

790
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,619
well Barack Obama in case you're not

791
00:34:21,849 --> 00:34:18,960
aware categorically denied that these

792
00:34:24,530 --> 00:34:21,859
existed he said I've looked into existed

793
00:34:26,750 --> 00:34:24,540
he he said I've looked into this if

794
00:34:28,970 --> 00:34:26,760
anyone would know I know there's no

795
00:34:31,070 --> 00:34:28,980
there's nothing here there's nothing

796
00:34:33,730 --> 00:34:31,080
there every president has had to say

797
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:33,740
this this has been the official position

798
00:34:38,990 --> 00:34:36,240
obviously of the United States

799
00:34:40,609 --> 00:34:39,000
government and therefore the world

800
00:34:42,589 --> 00:34:40,619
government because they controlled for

801
00:34:45,169 --> 00:34:42,599
the most part the information locked

802
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:45,179
down about UFOs the quarantine of

803
00:34:50,089 --> 00:34:46,800
information

804
00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:50,099
that was the story when Diana Walsh

805
00:34:53,629 --> 00:34:52,260
baselka who knows because she documents

806
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:53,639
in her book

807
00:34:58,970 --> 00:34:56,399
his her interface with the invisible

808
00:35:00,349 --> 00:34:58,980
college and Jacques valet kind of gives

809
00:35:02,570 --> 00:35:00,359
her the inside scoop and says look

810
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:02,580
here's how you got to play this game and

811
00:35:05,810 --> 00:35:03,839
here's how you got to be careful and

812
00:35:07,730 --> 00:35:05,820
here's how you do this and that I mean

813
00:35:13,069 --> 00:35:07,740
that was the

814
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:13,079
not talk about this you do not

815
00:35:16,190 --> 00:35:14,400
acknowledge it

816
00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:16,200
that was the official position

817
00:35:21,950 --> 00:35:19,380
do you think there are organizations or

818
00:35:23,690 --> 00:35:21,960
groups of groups of people humans here

819
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:23,700
on our planet in the U.S government

820
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:26,400
whatever who know exactly what's going

821
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,040
on how these things work and what their

822
00:35:33,950 --> 00:35:31,680
agenda is and what it's all about

823
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:33,960
I think that's a different question it's

824
00:35:36,650 --> 00:35:35,280
an interesting question but it's a

825
00:35:37,970 --> 00:35:36,660
different question the way I'd phrase

826
00:35:41,870 --> 00:35:37,980
the question is

827
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:41,880
can we conclusively say prove if you

828
00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:43,200
will because this is kind of more of a

829
00:35:47,089 --> 00:35:45,240
social thing prove that there was a

830
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:47,099
group inside the United States

831
00:35:53,870 --> 00:35:50,000
government who was actively trying to

832
00:35:56,510 --> 00:35:53,880
mislead misinformed deceive for a

833
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:56,520
particular purpose the people of the

834
00:35:59,569 --> 00:35:58,079
United States and the people of the

835
00:36:02,150 --> 00:35:59,579
world and the answer to that is

836
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:02,160
absolutely yes we have documentation of

837
00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:04,800
it why do you think they did it what was

838
00:36:08,690 --> 00:36:06,720
the motivation

839
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:08,700
well Bernardo we can take their

840
00:36:13,069 --> 00:36:10,800
explanation of it which is

841
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:13,079
what we've always heard we're just

842
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:14,880
trying to keep you safe

843
00:36:18,349 --> 00:36:17,280
and the other thing they'll add is you

844
00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:18,359
know what

845
00:36:22,670 --> 00:36:20,700
you can't really handle it

846
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:22,680
you can't handle the truth the famous

847
00:36:28,130 --> 00:36:24,839
quote if we were to tell you there'd be

848
00:36:30,170 --> 00:36:28,140
Mass confusion our whole society would

849
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:30,180
crumble religion would crumble all these

850
00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:33,000
things you can't handle the truth it's

851
00:36:37,730 --> 00:36:36,060
better that we kind of control this so

852
00:36:39,710 --> 00:36:37,740
that's what they're that's what they say

853
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:39,720
but why

854
00:36:45,530 --> 00:36:42,000
but you know and again I'll I'll

855
00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:45,540
reference this to the excellent essay

856
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:48,660
that you wrote the essence of Western

857
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:52,800
culture is at stake here it is free will

858
00:36:59,690 --> 00:36:56,040
it is the American Constitution we the

859
00:37:01,970 --> 00:36:59,700
people I shall decide if I can handle

860
00:37:04,730 --> 00:37:01,980
the truth you will not decide if I

861
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:04,740
handle the truth so I I don't go there I

862
00:37:08,690 --> 00:37:06,960
don't go to where you are I just go with

863
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,700
I don't agree with Colonel John

864
00:37:12,589 --> 00:37:10,800
Alexander on much but throw the

865
00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:12,599
[\h__\h] in jail when they break

866
00:37:17,210 --> 00:37:14,460
the Constitution when they break the law

867
00:37:18,829 --> 00:37:17,220
I don't want to hear your excuse for why

868
00:37:21,710 --> 00:37:18,839
you were just following orders or

869
00:37:24,050 --> 00:37:21,720
whatever else it's idealistic but how

870
00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:24,060
can we be anything other than idealistic

871
00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:26,760
with this truth yeah there I am with you

872
00:37:34,430 --> 00:37:31,040
I think we at least the elites far

873
00:37:37,790 --> 00:37:34,440
underestimate the ability of people to

874
00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:37,800
actually accommodate hard facts and and

875
00:37:43,730 --> 00:37:40,380
to make good sense and integrate things

876
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:43,740
that are mind-boggling at first sight so

877
00:37:47,690 --> 00:37:45,359
there I am with you

878
00:37:50,930 --> 00:37:47,700
um I'm not trying to defend anyone but

879
00:37:53,930 --> 00:37:50,940
uh since it's skeptical I'll try to play

880
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:53,940
the other polarity of this discussion

881
00:37:59,089 --> 00:37:57,119
there is a lot of nonsense and [\h__\h]

882
00:38:02,450 --> 00:37:59,099
in the UFO Community you you must

883
00:38:04,849 --> 00:38:02,460
acknowledge that I've reluctant to just

884
00:38:07,069 --> 00:38:04,859
kind of blanketly acknowledge that for

885
00:38:09,710 --> 00:38:07,079
the reason that we just said is that we

886
00:38:12,910 --> 00:38:09,720
can clearly show that a lot of the

887
00:38:15,890 --> 00:38:12,920
confusion and [\h__\h] and apparent just

888
00:38:18,770 --> 00:38:15,900
idiotic behavior and thinking

889
00:38:20,690 --> 00:38:18,780
was intentionally orchestrated this guy

890
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:20,700
you you just don't know the history here

891
00:38:27,050 --> 00:38:24,320
Richard Doty again he's an intelligent

892
00:38:29,210 --> 00:38:27,060
counterintelligence agent he ran these

893
00:38:31,790 --> 00:38:29,220
guys in circles and then at one point as

894
00:38:35,810 --> 00:38:31,800
kind of the ultimate ultimate in your

895
00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:35,820
face he goes on this very prominent U.S

896
00:38:42,530 --> 00:38:39,420
show and he says yes I am an ET we like

897
00:38:44,329 --> 00:38:42,540
strawberry ice cream and party and at

898
00:38:47,390 --> 00:38:44,339
this point people were kind of you know

899
00:38:49,550 --> 00:38:47,400
so they are creating that and that

900
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:49,560
whenever they create it they're mixing

901
00:38:56,030 --> 00:38:54,000
it in with 90 true new information that

902
00:38:58,250 --> 00:38:56,040
you can't get anyplace else so you're

903
00:38:59,870 --> 00:38:58,260
drawn into it and then they're adding

904
00:39:02,870 --> 00:38:59,880
the Absurd they're ridiculous so you

905
00:39:04,849 --> 00:39:02,880
look like a fool this is the game that

906
00:39:05,870 --> 00:39:04,859
they've played it's documented over and

907
00:39:09,230 --> 00:39:05,880
over again

908
00:39:11,089 --> 00:39:09,240
Dr Diana Welsh basilka who is no slouch

909
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:11,099
and is sitting up there with Jeff

910
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:13,200
[\h__\h] and has the ultimate respect of

911
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:15,119
people that you know like Jacques valet

912
00:39:20,930 --> 00:39:17,520
she's telling to you straight and that

913
00:39:22,609 --> 00:39:20,940
is this game is a real hardcore game and

914
00:39:23,569 --> 00:39:22,619
it's in play but here's the thing that

915
00:39:26,270 --> 00:39:23,579
we're going to talk about in a minute

916
00:39:29,630 --> 00:39:26,280
it's not limited to UFOs

917
00:39:32,270 --> 00:39:29,640
it just it just shines more clearly in

918
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:32,280
the UFO space because it's been exposed

919
00:39:38,750 --> 00:39:36,480
the question it's raises is okay how do

920
00:39:40,730 --> 00:39:38,760
we know where to look then how do we

921
00:39:44,569 --> 00:39:40,740
know what to take seriously and what not

922
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:44,579
because even the Absurd stuff the the in

923
00:39:51,290 --> 00:39:47,520
your face nonsensical stuff like alien

924
00:39:54,970 --> 00:39:51,300
messages written in binary obeying human

925
00:39:57,890 --> 00:39:54,980
ASCII code if that is planted

926
00:40:01,069 --> 00:39:57,900
then how do you know how do we even

927
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:01,079
begin unless we do field research

928
00:40:07,069 --> 00:40:03,599
entirely on our own starting from

929
00:40:08,109 --> 00:40:07,079
scratch how do we know who or what to

930
00:40:12,530 --> 00:40:08,119
believe

931
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:12,540
we have to have some some kind of safe

932
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:14,880
board safe harbors here that we can

933
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:17,280
anchor our boat on because we can't

934
00:40:23,210 --> 00:40:20,160
rebuild the thing from scratch no nobody

935
00:40:25,010 --> 00:40:23,220
has the education the time the tools to

936
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,020
start from scratch and derive any

937
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:27,359
meaningful conclusion so what do we do

938
00:40:31,609 --> 00:40:29,280
other than throw our arms up and just

939
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,619
give up and say well there's I can't

940
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:33,599
believe anything anyway

941
00:40:37,130 --> 00:40:35,520
well that might lead into the second

942
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:37,140
essay of yours that I want to bring up

943
00:40:41,630 --> 00:40:39,200
on the screen and talk about the

944
00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:41,640
anti-establishment sentiment from

945
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:45,540
November 2020 because what I'm to answer

946
00:40:50,810 --> 00:40:47,520
your question directly

947
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:50,820
heck she just said it which is that one

948
00:40:57,290 --> 00:40:53,280
we have to acknowledge it and two we

949
00:41:01,010 --> 00:40:57,300
have to start developing skills talents

950
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:01,020
and toughness to combat it what we can't

951
00:41:07,550 --> 00:41:04,020
do is pretend that it doesn't exist tell

952
00:41:10,310 --> 00:41:07,560
us what you were trying to get across in

953
00:41:12,950 --> 00:41:10,320
the anti-establishment sentiment because

954
00:41:15,109 --> 00:41:12,960
I think it's very important and and a

955
00:41:17,569 --> 00:41:15,119
good article

956
00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:17,579
I think there is legitimacy

957
00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:19,260
to

958
00:41:24,530 --> 00:41:21,540
the overall feeling you're finding many

959
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:24,540
societies today that they have been

960
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:28,079
deceived by intellectual Elites by by

961
00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:31,200
the media the liberal media and that

962
00:41:35,870 --> 00:41:32,700
sentiment is

963
00:41:38,690 --> 00:41:35,880
well Justified to a large extent when we

964
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:38,700
thought that the media was serious and

965
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:41,760
there was consensus and safe harbors to

966
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:44,160
use the same expression I just did back

967
00:41:50,810 --> 00:41:47,520
in the 80s what we didn't know is that

968
00:41:53,150 --> 00:41:50,820
we were seeing basically one spin of the

969
00:41:56,810 --> 00:41:53,160
story one side of the story that we took

970
00:41:58,970 --> 00:41:56,820
for the truth and with the internet and

971
00:42:01,750 --> 00:41:58,980
social media and our ability to share

972
00:42:04,130 --> 00:42:01,760
information and exchange ideas

973
00:42:08,329 --> 00:42:04,140
in a manner in a manner that is

974
00:42:10,430 --> 00:42:08,339
unmediated and unedited by the powers

975
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:10,440
that be in the media we started

976
00:42:15,890 --> 00:42:12,480
realizing that hey there there are many

977
00:42:17,870 --> 00:42:15,900
other sides to every single story and

978
00:42:19,790 --> 00:42:17,880
that has led to a lot of polarization

979
00:42:24,349 --> 00:42:19,800
and a lot of [\h__\h] let's acknowledge

980
00:42:27,530 --> 00:42:24,359
that too but the base motivation is

981
00:42:30,349 --> 00:42:27,540
valid is correct uh it it affects even

982
00:42:34,450 --> 00:42:30,359
my own field which is you know

983
00:42:37,010 --> 00:42:34,460
philosophy ontology we have been

984
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:37,020
deceived with this notion that for

985
00:42:42,109 --> 00:42:39,839
instance materialism is is is a fact

986
00:42:45,290 --> 00:42:42,119
it's a done deal it's it's definitely

987
00:42:47,089 --> 00:42:45,300
true nonsense nonsense materialism has

988
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:47,099
always been an internally contradictory

989
00:42:52,190 --> 00:42:49,440
and very very weak in terms of

990
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:52,200
explanatory power it has always been a

991
00:42:56,329 --> 00:42:54,000
very very problematic idea it's just

992
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,339
that a certain critical mass of people

993
00:43:00,170 --> 00:42:58,560
in intellectual Elites decided that they

994
00:43:02,569 --> 00:43:00,180
would stake their career and their

995
00:43:04,730 --> 00:43:02,579
public personas on it so it gathered a

996
00:43:08,450 --> 00:43:04,740
lot of momentum but we were bullshitted

997
00:43:10,490 --> 00:43:08,460
and we continue to be bullshitted um I

998
00:43:14,270 --> 00:43:10,500
just don't think that that is as

999
00:43:18,050 --> 00:43:14,280
malicious and as coordinated as I sense

1000
00:43:20,270 --> 00:43:18,060
you think it is but I will very very

1001
00:43:24,050 --> 00:43:20,280
easily acknowledge we have been [\h__\h]

1002
00:43:26,589 --> 00:43:24,060
and then there is a legitimacy to to a

1003
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:26,599
sentiment a a bad sentiment against

1004
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,040
intellectual and media Elites

1005
00:43:34,010 --> 00:43:31,440
okay let me ask you to

1006
00:43:37,730 --> 00:43:34,020
play hypothetical for a second

1007
00:43:41,150 --> 00:43:37,740
moving from Diana Walsh baselka again as

1008
00:43:43,790 --> 00:43:41,160
a case study in intentional organized

1009
00:43:44,990 --> 00:43:43,800
highly leveraged like by very powerful

1010
00:43:47,630 --> 00:43:45,000
people

1011
00:43:49,490 --> 00:43:47,640
disinformation so now we know that's on

1012
00:43:50,270 --> 00:43:49,500
the table that's in play we can document

1013
00:43:53,569 --> 00:43:50,280
it

1014
00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:53,579
if you were to imagine speculate

1015
00:44:00,890 --> 00:43:57,180
why someone might want to advance

1016
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:00,900
a materialistic agenda that has been

1017
00:44:06,530 --> 00:44:04,260
falsified experimentally like you said

1018
00:44:09,530 --> 00:44:06,540
you were to kind of speculate about a

1019
00:44:12,589 --> 00:44:09,540
potential what what might that be uh the

1020
00:44:14,690 --> 00:44:12,599
way it started it was a power grab and

1021
00:44:16,190 --> 00:44:14,700
the way it started materialism when it

1022
00:44:18,829 --> 00:44:16,200
was proposed in the early days of

1023
00:44:21,650 --> 00:44:18,839
science four centuries ago it was known

1024
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:21,660
and acknowledged by the enlightenment

1025
00:44:27,290 --> 00:44:24,960
folks to be a a world view that didn't

1026
00:44:30,490 --> 00:44:27,300
really work but that they needed to

1027
00:44:34,490 --> 00:44:32,809
on record saying that materialism

1028
00:44:36,530 --> 00:44:34,500
doesn't work but we need to keep using

1029
00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:36,540
it because it's our weapon against the

1030
00:44:42,589 --> 00:44:39,119
church that was in the 18th century in

1031
00:44:44,450 --> 00:44:42,599
the mid 19th century after Darwin there

1032
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:44,460
was a perception among intellectual

1033
00:44:49,849 --> 00:44:47,040
Elites that there there could be finally

1034
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:49,859
a total Victory against the church such

1035
00:44:55,130 --> 00:44:52,319
that the intellectual Elite would have

1036
00:44:57,050 --> 00:44:55,140
the power to steer a culture and move

1037
00:44:59,990 --> 00:44:57,060
people and not to the church because

1038
00:45:01,910 --> 00:45:00,000
Darwin solved what was perceived then as

1039
00:45:04,069 --> 00:45:01,920
the big problem which is how do we

1040
00:45:06,849 --> 00:45:04,079
explain the variety of life other than a

1041
00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:06,859
career creator that made this as it is

1042
00:45:10,970 --> 00:45:09,300
and then people actually started

1043
00:45:12,770 --> 00:45:10,980
swallowing whole the notion that

1044
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:12,780
materialism is actually true even though

1045
00:45:16,190 --> 00:45:14,640
it's not worked out and has internal

1046
00:45:17,870 --> 00:45:16,200
contradictions so that was the

1047
00:45:20,270 --> 00:45:17,880
motivation in the beginning together

1048
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:20,280
with getting rid of the greatest fear

1049
00:45:25,550 --> 00:45:23,040
Humanity has always had which is what

1050
00:45:27,050 --> 00:45:25,560
will we experience after we die are we

1051
00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:27,060
going to go to hell or are we going to

1052
00:45:31,370 --> 00:45:29,280
go to heaven people have used this to

1053
00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:31,380
control societies for Millennia and that

1054
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:34,319
was off the table suddenly great great

1055
00:45:39,849 --> 00:45:37,680
emotional payoff now today why does it

1056
00:45:43,309 --> 00:45:39,859
continue I think it continues because of

1057
00:45:46,670 --> 00:45:43,319
stigmergy which is conspiracy the other

1058
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:46,680
way around when you start your career

1059
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,480
and you realize that the people getting

1060
00:45:52,430 --> 00:45:50,400
promoted are the people who pay lip

1061
00:45:54,829 --> 00:45:52,440
service to materialism who portray

1062
00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:54,839
themselves as the Tough People Who Stare

1063
00:45:59,630 --> 00:45:57,359
The Bleak facts of meaninglessness in

1064
00:46:02,270 --> 00:45:59,640
the face you emulate that behavior

1065
00:46:05,089 --> 00:46:02,280
because you want to get promoted too and

1066
00:46:07,809 --> 00:46:05,099
and this stigma G now is everywhere it

1067
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,819
pervades the media some years ago

1068
00:46:11,569 --> 00:46:09,839
psychedelic research papers were

1069
00:46:13,790 --> 00:46:11,579
published showing that brain activity

1070
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:13,800
only reduces with the application with

1071
00:46:18,109 --> 00:46:15,839
the administration of psychedelics the

1072
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:18,119
media published the opposite result the

1073
00:46:22,609 --> 00:46:20,400
guardian is on record and CNN is on

1074
00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:22,619
record saying the opposite why because

1075
00:46:26,809 --> 00:46:24,780
they took a figure from these papers

1076
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,819
that had a lot of red but it was not

1077
00:46:31,010 --> 00:46:28,800
brain activity that was represented by

1078
00:46:33,170 --> 00:46:31,020
the red it was functional connectivity

1079
00:46:35,390 --> 00:46:33,180
something completely else and they put

1080
00:46:36,890 --> 00:46:35,400
that picture saying look lots of red

1081
00:46:39,650 --> 00:46:36,900
your brain lights up like a Christmas

1082
00:46:42,410 --> 00:46:39,660
tree it was the opposite of this study

1083
00:46:45,050 --> 00:46:42,420
and why is that it's stigma G because

1084
00:46:47,329 --> 00:46:45,060
journalists feel that they are safe if

1085
00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:47,339
they portray everything from the

1086
00:46:51,470 --> 00:46:49,260
materialist perspective I think it's

1087
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:51,480
just cultural nonsense it's the Dynamics

1088
00:46:56,510 --> 00:46:53,280
of human stupidity

1089
00:46:59,750 --> 00:46:56,520
could it be more because you see where I

1090
00:47:02,270 --> 00:46:59,760
see that you went is yeah the church has

1091
00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:02,280
all the power and it's about control if

1092
00:47:06,190 --> 00:47:03,480
we don't want the church to have the

1093
00:47:08,329 --> 00:47:06,200
power and what in the process of

1094
00:47:10,190 --> 00:47:08,339
reclaiming that power

1095
00:47:13,130 --> 00:47:10,200
there's a power vacuum

1096
00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:13,140
and power vacuums are always filled so

1097
00:47:17,089 --> 00:47:15,660
is it possible can we contemplate in a

1098
00:47:20,270 --> 00:47:17,099
world where someone

1099
00:47:22,670 --> 00:47:20,280
uses scientific materialism and starts

1100
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:22,680
deriving benefit from it in terms of the

1101
00:47:26,270 --> 00:47:24,720
only thing that ever matters which is

1102
00:47:29,329 --> 00:47:26,280
controlling people

1103
00:47:32,450 --> 00:47:29,339
is provide and Rule I acknowledge that

1104
00:47:35,089 --> 00:47:32,460
this is used this way for for for the

1105
00:47:39,109 --> 00:47:35,099
purpose of uh maintaining power I just

1106
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:39,119
think that it is not as coordinated

1107
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:41,280
as

1108
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:46,079
would suggest I think there's a lot of

1109
00:47:50,990 --> 00:47:48,000
personal motivation or small group

1110
00:47:53,390 --> 00:47:51,000
thinking it it's not a cabal I don't

1111
00:47:55,609 --> 00:47:53,400
think it's it's following a set of rules

1112
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:55,619
written by someone at some point a

1113
00:47:59,930 --> 00:47:58,079
century ago you're talking to the wrong

1114
00:48:02,329 --> 00:47:59,940
conspiracy theorist because I I would

1115
00:48:05,329 --> 00:48:02,339
never say that I would say it it

1116
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:05,339
requires almost zero effort it's uh you

1117
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:06,720
know Stalin's favorite thing about

1118
00:48:10,370 --> 00:48:08,520
useful idiots all you have to do is

1119
00:48:12,770 --> 00:48:10,380
throw a few pieces of cheese at the end

1120
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:12,780
of the Rat Maze and the Rats come and

1121
00:48:15,770 --> 00:48:14,160
they find their way through it and then

1122
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:15,780
you just have to continue to reward it

1123
00:48:20,690 --> 00:48:19,200
takes almost no effort at all it takes a

1124
00:48:23,150 --> 00:48:20,700
couple of dozen

1125
00:48:25,069 --> 00:48:23,160
sock puppet guys each with a few hundred

1126
00:48:27,170 --> 00:48:25,079
accounts and right now today you can

1127
00:48:28,849 --> 00:48:27,180
kind of create and shape any of the

1128
00:48:30,530 --> 00:48:28,859
stuff you make here let me let me read

1129
00:48:32,510 --> 00:48:30,540
for you because I want to move along and

1130
00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:32,520
make use your time here in this same

1131
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:34,200
article that we were talking about you

1132
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,240
write it goes without saying that some

1133
00:48:40,370 --> 00:48:38,160
scientific results are unreliable

1134
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:40,380
science is done by humans and as such

1135
00:48:45,470 --> 00:48:43,200
just as imperfect as we all are but

1136
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:45,480
there are scientific conclusions so

1137
00:48:50,630 --> 00:48:48,720
robust that they command broad consensus

1138
00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:50,640
human activity is changing our climate

1139
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:51,839
in ways that threaten our survival

1140
00:48:55,730 --> 00:48:53,520
vaccines working have saved countless

1141
00:48:57,710 --> 00:48:55,740
millions of lives covid-19 is vastly

1142
00:49:00,530 --> 00:48:57,720
more dangerous than the flu face mask

1143
00:49:03,710 --> 00:49:00,540
and social distancing help contain the

1144
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:03,720
spread of respiratory diseases

1145
00:49:07,730 --> 00:49:05,640
Etc I'd love to know what's behind that

1146
00:49:10,370 --> 00:49:07,740
Etc because I disagree with almost

1147
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:10,380
everyone you had there but let me drill

1148
00:49:13,849 --> 00:49:12,480
into this one because I really want to I

1149
00:49:16,190 --> 00:49:13,859
want to call you to task here and you're

1150
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:16,200
going to defend yourself obviously but I

1151
00:49:20,510 --> 00:49:18,000
think there's more at stake here than

1152
00:49:23,170 --> 00:49:20,520
these kind of petty squabbles here's

1153
00:49:25,550 --> 00:49:23,180
what what you write about climate

1154
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:25,560
human-induced climate change poses

1155
00:49:30,530 --> 00:49:28,079
perhaps the single greatest existential

1156
00:49:33,650 --> 00:49:30,540
threat our civilization has ever faced

1157
00:49:37,069 --> 00:49:33,660
we or Worse our children will pay an

1158
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:37,079
unimaginably steep price for inaction in

1159
00:49:42,650 --> 00:49:39,839
this regard we must get our act together

1160
00:49:45,170 --> 00:49:42,660
and globally oh I love that word scale

1161
00:49:47,150 --> 00:49:45,180
to adapt some of our way of life limit

1162
00:49:48,589 --> 00:49:47,160
emissions preserve what is left of our

1163
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:48,599
planet's natural ecosystem and

1164
00:49:54,109 --> 00:49:50,640
biodiversity and ultimately save

1165
00:49:57,410 --> 00:49:54,119
ourselves it's flat out criminal to

1166
00:50:00,050 --> 00:49:57,420
ignore this or to use it for short-term

1167
00:50:02,569 --> 00:50:00,060
political gain

1168
00:50:06,650 --> 00:50:02,579
okay here you go here's the here's the

1169
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:06,660
pushback so you are speaking now as a

1170
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:09,119
scientist and you're talking to the

1171
00:50:11,630 --> 00:50:09,839
public

1172
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:11,640
and that's how you're doing it and

1173
00:50:14,510 --> 00:50:13,260
that's what you're modeling to a certain

1174
00:50:17,569 --> 00:50:14,520
extent

1175
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:17,579
and my pushback is the Diana Walsh

1176
00:50:24,530 --> 00:50:21,660
pasoka pushback let me play a couple of

1177
00:50:25,849 --> 00:50:24,540
Clips not too long and then then we'll

1178
00:50:28,370 --> 00:50:25,859
have a little discussion not so much

1179
00:50:31,069 --> 00:50:28,380
about climate change but maybe kind of

1180
00:50:34,329 --> 00:50:31,079
about the underlying issues here

1181
00:50:37,010 --> 00:50:34,339
so this is uh Dr Judith Curry

1182
00:50:40,130 --> 00:50:37,020
presenting in front of the United States

1183
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:40,140
Congress she is the former head of the

1184
00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:42,960
Department of clientology at Georgia

1185
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,760
Tech University highly respected

1186
00:50:50,270 --> 00:50:46,800
University here in the United States and

1187
00:50:54,349 --> 00:50:50,280
she is extremely highly respected in her

1188
00:50:56,510 --> 00:50:54,359
field of climatology

1189
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,520
I thank the chairman the ranking members

1190
00:50:59,990 --> 00:50:58,559
for the opportunity to offer testimony

1191
00:51:03,290 --> 00:51:00,000
today

1192
00:51:06,530 --> 00:51:03,300
prior to 2009 I felt that supporting the

1193
00:51:08,329 --> 00:51:06,540
ipcc consensus on climate change was a

1194
00:51:10,849 --> 00:51:08,339
responsible thing to do

1195
00:51:13,370 --> 00:51:10,859
I bought into the argument don't trust

1196
00:51:15,230 --> 00:51:13,380
what one scientist says trust what an

1197
00:51:17,210 --> 00:51:15,240
international team of a thousand

1198
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:17,220
scientists has said after years of

1199
00:51:21,710 --> 00:51:19,200
careful deliberation

1200
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:21,720
that all changed for me in November 2009

1201
00:51:26,569 --> 00:51:24,240
following the leak climate gate emails

1202
00:51:28,849 --> 00:51:26,579
that Illustrated the sausage making and

1203
00:51:30,349 --> 00:51:28,859
even bullying that went into building

1204
00:51:32,450 --> 00:51:30,359
the consensus

1205
00:51:34,490 --> 00:51:32,460
I started speaking out saying that

1206
00:51:36,130 --> 00:51:34,500
scientists needed to do better at making

1207
00:51:38,210 --> 00:51:36,140
the data and supporting information

1208
00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:38,220
publicly available

1209
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:40,559
being more transparent about how they

1210
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:42,000
reach conclusions

1211
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:43,920
doing a better job of assessing

1212
00:51:50,030 --> 00:51:46,800
uncertainties and actively engaging with

1213
00:51:52,250 --> 00:51:50,040
Scientists having minority perspectives

1214
00:51:55,010 --> 00:51:52,260
the response of my colleagues to this is

1215
00:51:57,530 --> 00:51:55,020
summed up by the title of a 2010 article

1216
00:52:01,010 --> 00:51:57,540
in the Scientific American

1217
00:52:02,510 --> 00:52:01,020
climate heretic Judith Curry turns on

1218
00:52:05,870 --> 00:52:02,520
her colleagues

1219
00:52:08,210 --> 00:52:05,880
I came to the

1220
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:08,220
growing realization that I had fallen

1221
00:52:13,309 --> 00:52:11,040
into the Trap of groupthink I had

1222
00:52:16,010 --> 00:52:13,319
accepted the consensus based on second

1223
00:52:18,530 --> 00:52:16,020
order evidence the assertion that a

1224
00:52:20,930 --> 00:52:18,540
consensus existed

1225
00:52:23,210 --> 00:52:20,940
I began making an independent assessment

1226
00:52:25,790 --> 00:52:23,220
of topics in climate science that had

1227
00:52:27,710 --> 00:52:25,800
the most relevance to policy

1228
00:52:29,450 --> 00:52:27,720
and what have I concluded from this

1229
00:52:31,490 --> 00:52:29,460
assessment

1230
00:52:33,530 --> 00:52:31,500
human cause climate change is a theory

1231
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:33,540
in which the basic mechanism is well

1232
00:52:37,490 --> 00:52:36,480
understood but whose magnitude is highly

1233
00:52:39,950 --> 00:52:37,500
uncertain

1234
00:52:43,130 --> 00:52:39,960
no one questions at surface temperatures

1235
00:52:45,470 --> 00:52:43,140
have increased overall since 1880 or

1236
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:45,480
that humans are adding carbon dioxide to

1237
00:52:49,970 --> 00:52:48,000
the atmosphere or that carbon dioxide

1238
00:52:52,130 --> 00:52:49,980
and other greenhouse gases have a

1239
00:52:53,870 --> 00:52:52,140
warming effect on the planet

1240
00:52:56,329 --> 00:52:53,880
however there is considerable

1241
00:52:59,150 --> 00:52:56,339
uncertainty and disagreement about the

1242
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:59,160
most consequential issues whether the

1243
00:53:04,130 --> 00:53:00,960
warming has been dominated by human

1244
00:53:06,349 --> 00:53:04,140
causes versus natural variability

1245
00:53:09,170 --> 00:53:06,359
how much the planet will warm in the

1246
00:53:11,390 --> 00:53:09,180
21st century and whether warming is

1247
00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:11,400
dangerous

1248
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:15,119
let me pause there and give you a chance

1249
00:53:19,309 --> 00:53:17,040
to respond and you can respond either to

1250
00:53:22,190 --> 00:53:19,319
the the climate issue if you feel like

1251
00:53:23,450 --> 00:53:22,200
that's in your bailiwick or what I

1252
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:23,460
really want to highlight is the fact

1253
00:53:27,950 --> 00:53:26,160
that she's doing what Diana Walsh

1254
00:53:30,829 --> 00:53:27,960
basilka is saying

1255
00:53:33,530 --> 00:53:30,839
saying don't trust these [\h__\h]

1256
00:53:35,870 --> 00:53:33,540
look here's the model for how we have to

1257
00:53:38,569 --> 00:53:35,880
understand this let's look at the

1258
00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:38,579
descending voices let's look at the

1259
00:53:42,170 --> 00:53:40,740
source data and make our own

1260
00:53:44,569 --> 00:53:42,180
interpretations

1261
00:53:46,190 --> 00:53:44,579
she's a climatologist she's climbed on

1262
00:53:46,970 --> 00:53:46,200
top of the data and she's given us a new

1263
00:53:49,849 --> 00:53:46,980
look

1264
00:53:53,089 --> 00:53:49,859
okay the very very last thing she said

1265
00:53:55,010 --> 00:53:53,099
is I rating to me and the reason it is

1266
00:53:58,010 --> 00:53:55,020
irate to me the statement was whether

1267
00:54:00,349 --> 00:53:58,020
warming is dangerous you're talking to

1268
00:54:02,809 --> 00:54:00,359
somebody to a Dutch guy who lives in a

1269
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:02,819
country that has more than 40 percent of

1270
00:54:07,690 --> 00:54:06,000
its territory below sea level as much as

1271
00:54:10,370 --> 00:54:07,700
three and a half meters below sea level

1272
00:54:13,730 --> 00:54:10,380
we are making plans for what our country

1273
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:13,740
will be in 2100 and that involves

1274
00:54:20,450 --> 00:54:16,800
floating half the country on concrete

1275
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:20,460
barges including Farms Fields cows

1276
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:22,800
houses because we are going to lose half

1277
00:54:28,609 --> 00:54:26,160
the country we've made we are talking

1278
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:28,619
about making extremely hard decision to

1279
00:54:32,809 --> 00:54:30,240
stop defending the country against

1280
00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:32,819
rising sea level because the belgians

1281
00:54:35,870 --> 00:54:34,079
are our neighbors and the Germans are

1282
00:54:37,549 --> 00:54:35,880
not doing that so if we defend our

1283
00:54:41,450 --> 00:54:37,559
Coastline it will be flooded from the

1284
00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:41,460
sides anyway if a big ice pack in

1285
00:54:46,670 --> 00:54:44,040
Antarctica right now on land not in the

1286
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:46,680
sea that is melting from underneath if

1287
00:54:52,609 --> 00:54:49,680
there that slides down and enters the

1288
00:54:54,589 --> 00:54:52,619
ocean half my country is underwater and

1289
00:54:56,510 --> 00:54:54,599
there will be three families living here

1290
00:54:58,790 --> 00:54:56,520
in my house with me because I live in

1291
00:55:00,170 --> 00:54:58,800
the other half and they will be refugees

1292
00:55:02,690 --> 00:55:00,180
and the government will put them here

1293
00:55:04,430 --> 00:55:02,700
our plan is to defend Amsterdam and

1294
00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:04,440
Amsterdam alone

1295
00:55:08,630 --> 00:55:06,720
against the catastrophe that we see is

1296
00:55:12,890 --> 00:55:08,640
happening so when somebody comes and

1297
00:55:14,990 --> 00:55:12,900
says whether warming is dangerous but I

1298
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:15,000
want to slap them in the face because

1299
00:55:18,589 --> 00:55:17,040
they don't [\h__\h] know what they're

1300
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:18,599
talking about they don't live where I

1301
00:55:24,890 --> 00:55:22,559
live so how dare them raise the question

1302
00:55:27,230 --> 00:55:24,900
of whether warming is dangerous when

1303
00:55:29,450 --> 00:55:27,240
half my country is going to disappear if

1304
00:55:32,030 --> 00:55:29,460
I not ice pack in Antarctica slides down

1305
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:32,040
which it can do in five years I mean I

1306
00:55:39,349 --> 00:55:35,040
find this outrageous now

1307
00:55:42,170 --> 00:55:39,359
you yourself you know that uh academic

1308
00:55:44,569 --> 00:55:42,180
credentials are not everything and I

1309
00:55:46,250 --> 00:55:44,579
know that as well and I have two phds

1310
00:55:48,650 --> 00:55:46,260
and I'm the first one to tell you that

1311
00:55:51,950 --> 00:55:48,660
the most dangerous [\h__\h] is the

1312
00:55:54,109 --> 00:55:51,960
[\h__\h] suffixed by the latter's PHD I

1313
00:55:55,849 --> 00:55:54,119
know what it takes to get a PhD and I

1314
00:55:58,730 --> 00:55:55,859
know how easy you can get there without

1315
00:56:00,010 --> 00:55:58,740
being a wise mind so to say just playing

1316
00:56:03,770 --> 00:56:00,020
with numbers

1317
00:56:05,870 --> 00:56:03,780
so when certain academic authorities

1318
00:56:09,349 --> 00:56:05,880
tell us materialism is true we say

1319
00:56:10,790 --> 00:56:09,359
[\h__\h] we know to do that we know to

1320
00:56:13,970 --> 00:56:10,800
look through the appearances of

1321
00:56:16,309 --> 00:56:13,980
credentials so why don't we do that

1322
00:56:19,069 --> 00:56:16,319
consistently maybe a climate change

1323
00:56:21,410 --> 00:56:19,079
denialist who has credentials didn't

1324
00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:21,420
look carefully enough and look you

1325
00:56:28,549 --> 00:56:24,720
brought a clip of of the climate gate

1326
00:56:31,630 --> 00:56:28,559
that exploded 15 years ago it's old news

1327
00:56:34,089 --> 00:56:31,640
it's a note story since then

1328
00:56:36,650 --> 00:56:34,099
and largely triggered by that event

1329
00:56:40,069 --> 00:56:36,660
scientists have come back and looked at

1330
00:56:43,250 --> 00:56:40,079
the data again and again and again and

1331
00:56:45,410 --> 00:56:43,260
the evidence is overwhelming that things

1332
00:56:49,309 --> 00:56:45,420
are warming up and the evidence is

1333
00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:49,319
overwhelming that CO2 and methane are a

1334
00:56:55,490 --> 00:56:52,319
greenhouse gases so to disconnect the

1335
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:55,500
two requires a level of wishful thinking

1336
00:57:00,950 --> 00:56:59,280
that that for people like me who live in

1337
00:57:03,530 --> 00:57:00,960
the front lines of the ones who will

1338
00:57:06,309 --> 00:57:03,540
suffer when this thing plays out is is

1339
00:57:09,230 --> 00:57:06,319
it responsible

1340
00:57:11,770 --> 00:57:09,240
you showed me a note clip I can I didn't

1341
00:57:15,290 --> 00:57:11,780
come prepared for it but I can show you

1342
00:57:18,049 --> 00:57:15,300
overwhelming amounts of data that nobody

1343
00:57:19,790 --> 00:57:18,059
questions anymore that indicate that

1344
00:57:21,470 --> 00:57:19,800
warming is happening that the

1345
00:57:23,390 --> 00:57:21,480
Netherlands will disappear half of it

1346
00:57:25,069 --> 00:57:23,400
will disappear the Germans and the

1347
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:25,079
belgians are not going to host us we

1348
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:28,319
have to float our country and and

1349
00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:31,680
it's a reality we have to face in my

1350
00:57:36,250 --> 00:57:33,599
country and people have to face in

1351
00:57:38,510 --> 00:57:36,260
Florida and in Manhattan and and and

1352
00:57:40,730 --> 00:57:38,520
Bangladesh will disappear from the face

1353
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:40,740
of the Earth and there are millions of

1354
00:57:46,490 --> 00:57:44,160
people there and and there will be a

1355
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,500
Drinking Water Crisis Fresh Water Crisis

1356
00:57:49,549 --> 00:57:48,720
across the world people who die of

1357
00:57:52,490 --> 00:57:49,559
thirst

1358
00:57:55,309 --> 00:57:52,500
how can we play socava literally with

1359
00:57:57,650 --> 00:57:55,319
this dude this really

1360
00:57:59,750 --> 00:57:57,660
triggers me uh Alex I know you have

1361
00:58:02,450 --> 00:57:59,760
never seen me go on an emotional tirade

1362
00:58:04,910 --> 00:58:02,460
like this but you now touched on an

1363
00:58:07,309 --> 00:58:04,920
existential topic for me and everybody I

1364
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:07,319
love we are going to lose half our

1365
00:58:12,589 --> 00:58:09,839
country and it's inevitable it's a

1366
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:12,599
matter of how fast will we have time to

1367
00:58:19,069 --> 00:58:15,599
float half of our country or will we be

1368
00:58:23,210 --> 00:58:19,079
refugees in Belgium Belgium and Germany

1369
00:58:25,790 --> 00:58:23,220
is that these are the stakes for me so I

1370
00:58:27,770 --> 00:58:25,800
don't know quite how to respond because

1371
00:58:30,530 --> 00:58:27,780
we'd have to roll up our sleeves and get

1372
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:30,540
into a global warming debate which we

1373
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:33,599
could and we will a little bit but I

1374
00:58:37,970 --> 00:58:35,280
really want to steer it to this other

1375
00:58:40,370 --> 00:58:37,980
aspect of it that I think is behind what

1376
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:40,380
we're really talking about so number one

1377
00:58:44,329 --> 00:58:43,200
I think or just specifically address one

1378
00:58:47,210 --> 00:58:44,339
point you made because I think you're

1379
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:47,220
you're misinterpreting what she's saying

1380
00:58:52,190 --> 00:58:50,640
in terms of uh does it matter and I

1381
00:58:54,530 --> 00:58:52,200
think what she was referring to

1382
00:58:58,670 --> 00:58:54,540
specifically is there are scenarios

1383
00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:58,680
where we can have uh warming and not to

1384
00:59:04,670 --> 00:59:01,920
an extent that would be catastrophic to

1385
00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:04,680
our civilization so this is like an

1386
00:59:10,190 --> 00:59:07,200
obvious point but it just gets washed in

1387
00:59:12,170 --> 00:59:10,200
the in this kind of crazy kind of thing

1388
00:59:14,809 --> 00:59:12,180
that we get into of exaggerating things

1389
00:59:17,690 --> 00:59:14,819
right so it's it's a matter of because

1390
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:17,700
she is not saying that that there isn't

1391
00:59:22,130 --> 00:59:19,920
a warming and that there isn't a human

1392
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:22,140
factor to the warming she's saying that

1393
00:59:27,589 --> 00:59:24,720
depending on how much warming we have it

1394
00:59:28,970 --> 00:59:27,599
could be catastrophic or it could be not

1395
00:59:30,770 --> 00:59:28,980
catastrophic or it could even be

1396
00:59:32,690 --> 00:59:30,780
beneficial if it's only a slight warming

1397
00:59:34,250 --> 00:59:32,700
like we've seen it in past in the

1398
00:59:35,930 --> 00:59:34,260
history the other thing that I'd say

1399
00:59:37,130 --> 00:59:35,940
just to kind of respond to the data and

1400
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:37,140
then I want to get into the

1401
00:59:43,130 --> 00:59:40,319
misinformation globalization [\h__\h]

1402
00:59:46,730 --> 00:59:43,140
thing that this all addresses is the

1403
00:59:49,069 --> 00:59:46,740
simplest way to measure this crisis is

1404
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:49,079
to measure sea level rise

1405
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:51,839
and she has published more recently that

1406
00:59:56,450 --> 00:59:54,480
is 10 years old or longer she has

1407
00:59:58,370 --> 00:59:56,460
published recently and continued to

1408
01:00:01,490 --> 00:59:58,380
publish this is her field by the way

1409
01:00:03,710 --> 01:00:01,500
Bernardo this is not your field she is

1410
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:03,720
what what you said when you said she has

1411
01:00:10,370 --> 01:00:06,960
a PHD it's not that she has a PHD alone

1412
01:00:12,890 --> 01:00:10,380
it's that she is actively engaged in

1413
01:00:15,170 --> 01:00:12,900
dialoguing with colleagues who are who

1414
01:00:16,910 --> 01:00:15,180
don't all agree with her but this is her

1415
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:16,920
bread and butter and all she'd have to

1416
01:00:21,230 --> 01:00:18,720
do is go back turn back the clock 30

1417
01:00:23,030 --> 01:00:21,240
years ago they were predicting the same

1418
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,040
thing they were predicting that all

1419
01:00:27,170 --> 01:00:25,200
these islands would be underwater and

1420
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:27,180
that and that the model was clear that

1421
01:00:32,210 --> 01:00:29,040
that's the direction that we're having

1422
01:00:34,789 --> 01:00:32,220
there has not been a significant rise in

1423
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:34,799
sea level and that is the easiest way to

1424
01:00:40,370 --> 01:00:37,680
measure uh point out that the global

1425
01:00:42,349 --> 01:00:40,380
warming well here's the graph that I've

1426
01:00:45,890 --> 01:00:42,359
pulled up on the screen and we can it

1427
01:00:49,730 --> 01:00:45,900
ends in 2000 it ends 20 more than mid

1428
01:00:51,470 --> 01:00:49,740
1990s it ends 25 years ago Alex this I

1429
01:00:53,089 --> 01:00:51,480
just pulled up the recent I just pulled

1430
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:53,099
up the recent one for someone else

1431
01:01:01,510 --> 01:00:55,920
you're looking at about a 1.3 inch

1432
01:01:03,950 --> 01:01:01,520
centimeter increase in uh sea level over

1433
01:01:05,809 --> 01:01:03,960
what you're saying is that we get the

1434
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:05,819
answers from sea level rise that's not

1435
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:08,160
how the models work if a certain

1436
01:01:12,910 --> 01:01:10,559
threshold in temperature is crossed even

1437
01:01:16,670 --> 01:01:12,920
if it's a minor point something degrees

1438
01:01:19,010 --> 01:01:16,680
and it leads to certain uh ice packs

1439
01:01:21,890 --> 01:01:19,020
sliding down the continents and into the

1440
01:01:24,410 --> 01:01:21,900
sea you get a dramatic sea rise suddenly

1441
01:01:26,690 --> 01:01:24,420
the models are complex there are many

1442
01:01:30,109 --> 01:01:26,700
variables these are not linear models

1443
01:01:31,849 --> 01:01:30,119
these are non-linear models and and the

1444
01:01:34,609 --> 01:01:31,859
thick of what we know today we've

1445
01:01:36,289 --> 01:01:34,619
learned the past 15 years that's when

1446
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:36,299
all the old models were thrown away

1447
01:01:40,849 --> 01:01:37,920
because things were playing out a lot

1448
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:40,859
faster and yes it's not my my my area

1449
01:01:46,370 --> 01:01:43,760
and and I didn't come prepared to quote

1450
01:01:48,650 --> 01:01:46,380
quote many other scientists and show

1451
01:01:50,750 --> 01:01:48,660
many other graphs I could have but it's

1452
01:01:52,430 --> 01:01:50,760
not your area and it's not mine we are

1453
01:01:53,630 --> 01:01:52,440
both quoting other people and it's a

1454
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:53,640
matter of how many people generally

1455
01:02:01,250 --> 01:01:56,640
quote I didn't come prepared for it but

1456
01:02:06,109 --> 01:02:01,260
yeah this this affects me very very much

1457
01:02:07,730 --> 01:02:06,119
maybe my country baby my culture it

1458
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:07,740
might it might not

1459
01:02:15,890 --> 01:02:12,960
and that that point is undeniable it is

1460
01:02:18,410 --> 01:02:15,900
logically undeniable the models have not

1461
01:02:21,289 --> 01:02:18,420
proven to be at all accurate up to this

1462
01:02:23,150 --> 01:02:21,299
point that's a given the we can show

1463
01:02:25,430 --> 01:02:23,160
over and over again how the predictions

1464
01:02:27,650 --> 01:02:25,440
of the models have not have not followed

1465
01:02:30,410 --> 01:02:27,660
course so things are worse than the

1466
01:02:33,650 --> 01:02:30,420
mother's predicted look it's not true it

1467
01:02:36,170 --> 01:02:33,660
will affect us all we're not uh the

1468
01:02:38,329 --> 01:02:36,180
woman you showed the clip of at the time

1469
01:02:40,670 --> 01:02:38,339
she recorded that clip didn't know

1470
01:02:44,470 --> 01:02:40,680
either this was that was a four by three

1471
01:02:46,490 --> 01:02:44,480
clip so it's decades ago uh what was

1472
01:02:49,549 --> 01:02:46,500
2015. they

1473
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:49,559
what we know today we've learned over

1474
01:02:54,829 --> 01:02:52,559
the the past few years in which the old

1475
01:02:57,049 --> 01:02:54,839
models were proven to be way too

1476
01:03:00,049 --> 01:02:57,059
conservative things are going a lot

1477
01:03:02,270 --> 01:03:00,059
faster and we trust models for

1478
01:03:04,670 --> 01:03:02,280
everything else uh we to some extent We

1479
01:03:07,730 --> 01:03:04,680
Trust long-term weather forecasts for

1480
01:03:10,010 --> 01:03:07,740
agriculture we model we coordinate our

1481
01:03:13,010 --> 01:03:10,020
entire agriculture what we will plant

1482
01:03:15,890 --> 01:03:13,020
when based on our models we trust models

1483
01:03:18,530 --> 01:03:15,900
to put a man on the moon satellites in

1484
01:03:21,049 --> 01:03:18,540
orbit We Trust models to develop

1485
01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:21,059
medicines that that will keep us healthy

1486
01:03:27,770 --> 01:03:23,760
We Trust models for everything why won't

1487
01:03:30,049 --> 01:03:27,780
we trust an overwhelming barrage of data

1488
01:03:32,710 --> 01:03:30,059
and models telling us this [\h__\h] is

1489
01:03:36,890 --> 01:03:32,720
dangerous and I will lose

1490
01:03:39,549 --> 01:03:36,900
my country will lose at least most of

1491
01:03:43,309 --> 01:03:39,559
its cultural inheritance because

1492
01:03:45,230 --> 01:03:43,319
and Rotterdam and Utrecht and Amsterdam

1493
01:03:47,150 --> 01:03:45,240
we will defend my all of these will be

1494
01:03:49,970 --> 01:03:47,160
underwater and half of us will be

1495
01:03:52,130 --> 01:03:49,980
refugees I mean the models are telling

1496
01:03:54,530 --> 01:03:52,140
us that and we are acting accordingly

1497
01:03:56,569 --> 01:03:54,540
we're preparing to float the country so

1498
01:03:59,930 --> 01:03:56,579
how can we still be busy with the notion

1499
01:04:04,789 --> 01:03:59,940
maybe this is not dangerous darn we've

1500
01:04:06,589 --> 01:04:04,799
passed that long ago long okay so I want

1501
01:04:09,890 --> 01:04:06,599
to move on to one other topic okay and

1502
01:04:12,349 --> 01:04:09,900
and so I I would say that the answer

1503
01:04:13,549 --> 01:04:12,359
that I was going towards and I want to

1504
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:13,559
give you a chance to respond to this if

1505
01:04:17,210 --> 01:04:14,640
you want but I don't think because it's

1506
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:17,220
not controversial but the answer that I

1507
01:04:23,030 --> 01:04:19,680
was reaching for that our friend Dr

1508
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:23,040
Diana Wells pasoka gave which is because

1509
01:04:26,809 --> 01:04:24,480
the rig in the game

1510
01:04:29,390 --> 01:04:26,819
so I'm not you don't have to buy into

1511
01:04:32,210 --> 01:04:29,400
they're rigging the game on global

1512
01:04:35,930 --> 01:04:32,220
warming you just have to be open to it

1513
01:04:37,970 --> 01:04:35,940
and you have to seriously entertain what

1514
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:37,980
that would mean I don't know if you have

1515
01:04:41,089 --> 01:04:39,599
any response to that

1516
01:04:43,370 --> 01:04:41,099
Oh I thought you were going to show me

1517
01:04:45,109 --> 01:04:43,380
the uh oh I'll show you the clip okay

1518
01:04:47,829 --> 01:04:45,119
I'll show you the clip this from this

1519
01:04:50,150 --> 01:04:47,839
from 2015 another uh Congressional

1520
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:50,160
testimony that she gave she's not been

1521
01:04:52,970 --> 01:04:51,839
invited back since are we going to do

1522
01:04:54,410 --> 01:04:52,980
nothing because there's a greater than

1523
01:04:56,930 --> 01:04:54,420
one percent chance that climate change

1524
01:04:59,510 --> 01:04:56,940
there is nothing in my testimony that

1525
01:05:01,569 --> 01:04:59,520
said we do nothing I'm saying that one

1526
01:05:04,490 --> 01:05:01,579
is being proposed

1527
01:05:07,270 --> 01:05:04,500
is ineffective it's not going to do

1528
01:05:12,589 --> 01:05:07,280
anything even if the U.S is successful

1529
01:05:15,410 --> 01:05:12,599
at meeting 80 reductions by 2050 this is

1530
01:05:17,390 --> 01:05:15,420
going to reduce warming by about a tenth

1531
01:05:18,829 --> 01:05:17,400
of a degree Centigrade it's not going to

1532
01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:18,839
do anything

1533
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:21,119
when it comes to climate change looking

1534
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:24,480
at data of many years ago is just not

1535
01:05:28,190 --> 01:05:26,400
productive because the core of what

1536
01:05:30,289 --> 01:05:28,200
we've learned we've learned a lot

1537
01:05:31,910 --> 01:05:30,299
recently because the phenomenon has

1538
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:31,920
accelerated and the correlations have

1539
01:05:36,289 --> 01:05:34,799
become much more clear but the

1540
01:05:39,230 --> 01:05:36,299
correlation between the base of

1541
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:39,240
industrialization and global warming is

1542
01:05:44,690 --> 01:05:42,720
very tight and the speed of warming is

1543
01:05:46,670 --> 01:05:44,700
unprecedented in history and we have

1544
01:05:49,549 --> 01:05:46,680
core samples you know of ice from

1545
01:05:51,890 --> 01:05:49,559
previous years and and it's undeniable

1546
01:05:53,530 --> 01:05:51,900
the correlation is is pretty undeniable

1547
01:05:55,690 --> 01:05:53,540
if you look at

1548
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:55,700
more or less modern

1549
01:06:02,630 --> 01:06:00,240
data and Outlets so no I I I do not

1550
01:06:04,250 --> 01:06:02,640
agree with that and um and I think it's

1551
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:04,260
a disservice

1552
01:06:08,990 --> 01:06:06,720
um maybe at the time she was speaking

1553
01:06:11,569 --> 01:06:09,000
and and that is possible and even

1554
01:06:14,089 --> 01:06:11,579
reasonable there was more doubt than

1555
01:06:16,370 --> 01:06:14,099
there is today no she speaks today she

1556
01:06:19,609 --> 01:06:16,380
speaks today as a climatologist with

1557
01:06:22,250 --> 01:06:19,619
others uh by hers by her side saying the

1558
01:06:25,069 --> 01:06:22,260
same thing so just the the part that is

1559
01:06:27,049 --> 01:06:25,079
is kind of hard to take is that you you

1560
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:27,059
are not heeding the call of science

1561
01:06:30,829 --> 01:06:29,039
which is to hear the dissenting voices

1562
01:06:32,089 --> 01:06:30,839
but what to do that what you have to

1563
01:06:35,569 --> 01:06:32,099
consider is what we've been talking

1564
01:06:39,970 --> 01:06:35,579
about is that why would there be another

1565
01:06:42,289 --> 01:06:39,980
agenda whose interests are served by

1566
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:42,299
catastrophic climate change which is

1567
01:06:47,450 --> 01:06:44,400
what's being pitched and that has to be

1568
01:06:49,190 --> 01:06:47,460
analyzed independently of the data see

1569
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:49,200
that's what I'm suggesting is really

1570
01:06:53,690 --> 01:06:51,359
what this is all about that's what if

1571
01:06:55,849 --> 01:06:53,700
you listen to Diana Walsh pasoka that's

1572
01:06:57,829 --> 01:06:55,859
where she's at she's let like what we're

1573
01:07:00,289 --> 01:06:57,839
saying about the UFOs you give me the

1574
01:07:02,630 --> 01:07:00,299
data okay the first thing I do is what

1575
01:07:04,730 --> 01:07:02,640
we call on skeptico level two what's the

1576
01:07:06,829 --> 01:07:04,740
deception what's the conspiracy is it

1577
01:07:09,049 --> 01:07:06,839
Richard Doty behind the curtain saying

1578
01:07:10,730 --> 01:07:09,059
oh the aliens like strawberry ice cream

1579
01:07:12,829 --> 01:07:10,740
at the same time he's revealing

1580
01:07:15,230 --> 01:07:12,839
documents that have never been revealed

1581
01:07:18,349 --> 01:07:15,240
before we go oh my God that's true so

1582
01:07:20,329 --> 01:07:18,359
you have to understand how that game is

1583
01:07:22,130 --> 01:07:20,339
being played in order to figure out if

1584
01:07:25,370 --> 01:07:22,140
it's being played on you

1585
01:07:28,250 --> 01:07:25,380
I look I I do take the heat of science

1586
01:07:31,250 --> 01:07:28,260
to listen to dissenting voices but that

1587
01:07:33,650 --> 01:07:31,260
that call of science doesn't Force us to

1588
01:07:35,870 --> 01:07:33,660
believe in what everybody's saying we

1589
01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:35,880
can make up our minds Based on data the

1590
01:07:40,430 --> 01:07:38,400
opposition uh taking the point of view

1591
01:07:42,950 --> 01:07:40,440
of this person the opposition the people

1592
01:07:44,750 --> 01:07:42,960
who are saying there is a undeniable

1593
01:07:47,510 --> 01:07:44,760
correlation between climate change and

1594
01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:47,520
human industrial activity they also base

1595
01:07:51,289 --> 01:07:49,680
themselves on data now I didn't know we

1596
01:07:54,230 --> 01:07:51,299
would talk about this today so I came

1597
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:54,240
empty-handed I can't flash graphs for

1598
01:08:01,010 --> 01:07:56,400
you and videos for you today I didn't

1599
01:08:03,890 --> 01:08:01,020
know uh but you know you type a a search

1600
01:08:06,410 --> 01:08:03,900
on Google and you get the latest data

1601
01:08:08,329 --> 01:08:06,420
the latest model and and what other

1602
01:08:11,630 --> 01:08:08,339
people are saying also Based on data

1603
01:08:13,609 --> 01:08:11,640
also based on model so take the heat of

1604
01:08:15,289 --> 01:08:13,619
sign the call of science as well and and

1605
01:08:17,329 --> 01:08:15,299
look at what the others are saying and

1606
01:08:20,150 --> 01:08:17,339
the data they are using now as for

1607
01:08:22,430 --> 01:08:20,160
motivation we we

1608
01:08:25,550 --> 01:08:22,440
many times we say well you know we

1609
01:08:28,189 --> 01:08:25,560
didn't make campaigns anti-smoking

1610
01:08:29,870 --> 01:08:28,199
campaigns because there was the big the

1611
01:08:31,970 --> 01:08:29,880
big money the big companies selling

1612
01:08:34,370 --> 01:08:31,980
cigarettes so it was a conspiracy okay

1613
01:08:36,189 --> 01:08:34,380
and then um

1614
01:08:38,510 --> 01:08:36,199
the oil

1615
01:08:40,430 --> 01:08:38,520
conspiracies is is a big one the Royal

1616
01:08:43,010 --> 01:08:40,440
companies are not allowing this or that

1617
01:08:45,110 --> 01:08:43,020
to happen but in this case it is

1618
01:08:48,349 --> 01:08:45,120
precisely the big money the big oil

1619
01:08:50,329 --> 01:08:48,359
companies who short of apple one of them

1620
01:08:53,209 --> 01:08:50,339
is the largest company most valuable

1621
01:08:55,789 --> 01:08:53,219
company in the world today they are the

1622
01:08:59,030 --> 01:08:55,799
ones who tend to lose from the notion

1623
01:09:01,430 --> 01:08:59,040
that burning fossil fuels causes climate

1624
01:09:04,910 --> 01:09:01,440
change their business tends to lose a

1625
01:09:05,990 --> 01:09:04,920
lot so who stands to gain Elon Musk

1626
01:09:07,809 --> 01:09:06,000
alone

1627
01:09:10,309 --> 01:09:07,819
I don't know

1628
01:09:11,870 --> 01:09:10,319
here your time is you're already

1629
01:09:14,870 --> 01:09:11,880
spending a lot of time with me which I

1630
01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:14,880
appreciate no it's okay it's okay I have

1631
01:09:18,829 --> 01:09:16,799
uh one other topic I'm going to bring

1632
01:09:21,410 --> 01:09:18,839
forth and it's much closer to home and

1633
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:21,420
in our our wheelhouse it's Dean Raiden

1634
01:09:26,510 --> 01:09:24,420
and I don't know if you've had a chance

1635
01:09:30,349 --> 01:09:26,520
to catch this uh skeptical interview

1636
01:09:33,530 --> 01:09:30,359
that I had with Dean but it is without a

1637
01:09:37,010 --> 01:09:33,540
doubt one of the most unsettling and

1638
01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:37,020
disappointing experiences I've had

1639
01:09:43,070 --> 01:09:40,080
in the 15 years that I've done skeptico

1640
01:09:47,269 --> 01:09:43,080
because I have a tremendous amount of

1641
01:09:49,490 --> 01:09:47,279
respect for Dean rayton but um

1642
01:09:51,470 --> 01:09:49,500
let me play you a couple of clips from

1643
01:09:54,050 --> 01:09:51,480
this which I found

1644
01:09:55,490 --> 01:09:54,060
very troubling at the majority of the

1645
01:09:58,330 --> 01:09:55,500
interview is about his incredible

1646
01:10:01,610 --> 01:09:58,340
science which he his

1647
01:10:03,950 --> 01:10:01,620
brought forth in a way that is so in

1648
01:10:05,810 --> 01:10:03,960
line with what is so important with you

1649
01:10:07,010 --> 01:10:05,820
and me about dialogue control that's a

1650
01:10:09,470 --> 01:10:07,020
meaningless universe and all that stuff

1651
01:10:11,030 --> 01:10:09,480
here let me play this clip

1652
01:10:13,070 --> 01:10:11,040
who increased the strength of

1653
01:10:15,110 --> 01:10:13,080
entanglement and then intentionally

1654
01:10:17,090 --> 01:10:15,120
decrease the strength of entanglement

1655
01:10:20,209 --> 01:10:17,100
but like I said at the top of the show

1656
01:10:23,030 --> 01:10:20,219
Paradigm change never goes exactly the

1657
01:10:25,610 --> 01:10:23,040
way you think take Dean's latest plan

1658
01:10:27,169 --> 01:10:25,620
his biotech Venture that seeks to jab

1659
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:27,179
people in the arm in order to change

1660
01:10:32,149 --> 01:10:30,239
their DNA of course to fix their brain

1661
01:10:34,189 --> 01:10:32,159
which I thought were past the brain

1662
01:10:35,750 --> 01:10:34,199
Consciousness thing but anyways to fix

1663
01:10:38,030 --> 01:10:35,760
their brain so they're not depressed so

1664
01:10:40,010 --> 01:10:38,040
they don't have Alzheimer's and maybe

1665
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:40,020
they're a little bit more psychic than

1666
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:42,000
they were before and maybe they're even

1667
01:10:47,390 --> 01:10:44,400
a little bit more connected consciously

1668
01:10:50,209 --> 01:10:47,400
more like a hive mind kind of thing

1669
01:10:54,350 --> 01:10:50,219
so I wrote a story which is designed to

1670
01:10:56,630 --> 01:10:54,360
be an antidote to the way that psychic

1671
01:10:59,090 --> 01:10:56,640
phenomena are usually portrayed in

1672
01:11:00,950 --> 01:10:59,100
entertainment so think about the

1673
01:11:03,590 --> 01:11:00,960
Invasion of the Body Snatchers and the

1674
01:11:05,870 --> 01:11:03,600
Borg and Star Trek and virtually every

1675
01:11:08,209 --> 01:11:05,880
other example where you have a hive mind

1676
01:11:09,890 --> 01:11:08,219
which is presented as the most horrific

1677
01:11:12,470 --> 01:11:09,900
thing that you can possibly do

1678
01:11:14,570 --> 01:11:12,480
and we're saying in a story no it is not

1679
01:11:16,790 --> 01:11:14,580
only not horrific it is the best

1680
01:11:19,130 --> 01:11:16,800
possible thing that we can do to because

1681
01:11:22,310 --> 01:11:19,140
it it pulls together something which is

1682
01:11:24,709 --> 01:11:22,320
already interconnected but we be we sort

1683
01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:24,719
of behave in an illusory way that we're

1684
01:11:28,970 --> 01:11:26,159
separate and we're not really not

1685
01:11:30,590 --> 01:11:28,980
connected it is that disconnection that

1686
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:30,600
leads to the kind of Madness that we're

1687
01:11:34,669 --> 01:11:32,400
currently seeing in Ukraine

1688
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:34,679
right you have you know people and

1689
01:11:39,950 --> 01:11:37,520
literally shooting at each other and not

1690
01:11:41,630 --> 01:11:39,960
appreciating the fact that at a deeper

1691
01:11:43,550 --> 01:11:41,640
level everything it really is

1692
01:11:45,649 --> 01:11:43,560
interconnected including us

1693
01:11:47,689 --> 01:11:45,659
so this is part of the of the plot line

1694
01:11:50,750 --> 01:11:47,699
and the story where there's a tension

1695
01:11:52,970 --> 01:11:50,760
then between people who

1696
01:11:56,990 --> 01:11:52,980
who in this case take a genetic

1697
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:57,000
enhancement and become a a group mind

1698
01:12:01,669 --> 01:11:59,760
essentially everyone outside the group

1699
01:12:05,570 --> 01:12:01,679
mind thinks that this is scary we need

1700
01:12:07,189 --> 01:12:05,580
to stop that it's bad from inside this

1701
01:12:09,890 --> 01:12:07,199
is the best thing that ever happened

1702
01:12:13,370 --> 01:12:09,900
this is like the difference between

1703
01:12:14,810 --> 01:12:13,380
Homo sapiens and Homo Superior if we if

1704
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:14,820
we're going to survive we need to

1705
01:12:20,209 --> 01:12:18,239
advance as a species and so the story is

1706
01:12:22,130 --> 01:12:20,219
basically making the case that homo

1707
01:12:24,530 --> 01:12:22,140
sapiens is dying

1708
01:12:27,290 --> 01:12:24,540
and we have to we either die or we

1709
01:12:30,350 --> 01:12:27,300
evolve well the evolution is going

1710
01:12:31,970 --> 01:12:30,360
towards a new kind of human and if it

1711
01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:31,980
needs a little genetic push to get there

1712
01:12:39,530 --> 01:12:33,840
so be it

1713
01:12:45,350 --> 01:12:42,950
he is contemplating giving you the covid

1714
01:12:47,630 --> 01:12:45,360
jab I'm sorry uh it's his job from his

1715
01:12:51,050 --> 01:12:47,640
biotech company same thing multiple it's

1716
01:12:53,209 --> 01:12:51,060
uh altering your DNA in order to get

1717
01:12:54,590 --> 01:12:53,219
those damn Russians in line because why

1718
01:12:56,270 --> 01:12:54,600
are they running around there doing that

1719
01:12:57,890 --> 01:12:56,280
thing with your Ukraine and that Putin

1720
01:13:00,110 --> 01:12:57,900
and all the rest of that so let's get

1721
01:13:01,550 --> 01:13:00,120
everybody on the same page and these

1722
01:13:03,890 --> 01:13:01,560
people that want to pollute to all this

1723
01:13:07,850 --> 01:13:03,900
other stuff let's get them all on this

1724
01:13:12,229 --> 01:13:07,860
hey homo sapiens is out this is the

1725
01:13:14,270 --> 01:13:12,239
ultimate transhumanist wacky crazy stuff

1726
01:13:15,890 --> 01:13:14,280
and it's coming from Dean Raiden here's

1727
01:13:19,070 --> 01:13:15,900
another clip from that interview later

1728
01:13:24,229 --> 01:13:19,080
on so you know I'm not making it up

1729
01:13:26,630 --> 01:13:24,239
so this this is part of a a big and very

1730
01:13:28,850 --> 01:13:26,640
fast growing industry of what will

1731
01:13:31,729 --> 01:13:28,860
become modern medicine and people today

1732
01:13:34,669 --> 01:13:31,739
are still some people are afraid of of

1733
01:13:36,590 --> 01:13:34,679
mRNA treatments

1734
01:13:38,090 --> 01:13:36,600
they they were afraid of it in the same

1735
01:13:40,310 --> 01:13:38,100
way that people used to be afraid of

1736
01:13:41,810 --> 01:13:40,320
organ transplants and Prosthetics and

1737
01:13:44,030 --> 01:13:41,820
all kinds of stuff this is simply the

1738
01:13:45,770 --> 01:13:44,040
way whether they like it or not this is

1739
01:13:47,689 --> 01:13:45,780
where medicine is going because it's

1740
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:47,699
extremely effective

1741
01:13:51,950 --> 01:13:50,400
so later on Dean and I talked about what

1742
01:13:54,410 --> 01:13:51,960
is now and I don't know if you're aware

1743
01:13:58,130 --> 01:13:54,420
of this the overwhelming evidence that

1744
01:14:00,890 --> 01:13:58,140
the vaccine the jab that was given is

1745
01:14:02,870 --> 01:14:00,900
historically the most dangerous harmful

1746
01:14:06,649 --> 01:14:02,880
in history and we just had the thing in

1747
01:14:10,250 --> 01:14:06,659
the United States uh 1600 percent 16

1748
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:10,260
times normal uh male athletes and you

1749
01:14:13,970 --> 01:14:12,239
know the Big Ten the football league

1750
01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:13,980
over here which were tested heart

1751
01:14:20,209 --> 01:14:17,840
condition you have pregnancies uh lost

1752
01:14:22,070 --> 01:14:20,219
astronomical increase and then you have

1753
01:14:24,050 --> 01:14:22,080
the database from the army that was

1754
01:14:25,850 --> 01:14:24,060
public came out and had all these kind

1755
01:14:27,530 --> 01:14:25,860
of things so and when I brought that up

1756
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:27,540
to Dean we actually talked about it in

1757
01:14:31,070 --> 01:14:29,280
the interview and at first he was

1758
01:14:32,689 --> 01:14:31,080
reluctant and then finally I kind of

1759
01:14:35,030 --> 01:14:32,699
beat him down on the date and said it's

1760
01:14:37,430 --> 01:14:35,040
publicly published database from your

1761
01:14:40,189 --> 01:14:37,440
for that anyone can go and access the

1762
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:40,199
database and he said well you know

1763
01:14:43,610 --> 01:14:42,000
essentially

1764
01:14:45,890 --> 01:14:43,620
we're going to break a few eggs if we're

1765
01:14:47,630 --> 01:14:45,900
going to make an omelet so figuring out

1766
01:14:50,270 --> 01:14:47,640
how to do this

1767
01:14:52,070 --> 01:14:50,280
jab you in the arm change your DNA let's

1768
01:14:54,169 --> 01:14:52,080
all be transhumanist

1769
01:14:55,490 --> 01:14:54,179
hey that's part of the price we're going

1770
01:14:58,910 --> 01:14:55,500
to pay

1771
01:15:01,250 --> 01:14:58,920
okay uh in the interesting in the

1772
01:15:05,090 --> 01:15:01,260
interest of a productive discussion I'll

1773
01:15:06,410 --> 01:15:05,100
try to take a different perspective

1774
01:15:08,090 --> 01:15:06,420
um

1775
01:15:10,729 --> 01:15:08,100
I think

1776
01:15:13,790 --> 01:15:10,739
you are interpreting ding's original

1777
01:15:16,810 --> 01:15:13,800
point about you know Ukraine and the

1778
01:15:19,370 --> 01:15:16,820
fact that we are so separate and

1779
01:15:21,850 --> 01:15:19,380
incapable of you know seeing the world

1780
01:15:25,370 --> 01:15:21,860
through somebody else's eye

1781
01:15:28,610 --> 01:15:25,380
you interpreted it interpreted it like

1782
01:15:32,149 --> 01:15:28,620
the Borg in a sense that the result of

1783
01:15:35,090 --> 01:15:32,159
that would be a loss of individuality we

1784
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:35,100
would become a species of drones that

1785
01:15:42,110 --> 01:15:40,080
take their tune from a leader but we

1786
01:15:43,669 --> 01:15:42,120
lose our free will we lose our

1787
01:15:45,709 --> 01:15:43,679
individuality

1788
01:15:48,050 --> 01:15:45,719
uh Mike didn't see the entire interview

1789
01:15:51,050 --> 01:15:48,060
but based on this that

1790
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:51,060
segment alone that you showed my

1791
01:15:55,370 --> 01:15:52,800
original interpretation of what he was

1792
01:15:58,310 --> 01:15:55,380
trying to say was that

1793
01:16:00,770 --> 01:15:58,320
we need to experience more empathy

1794
01:16:03,110 --> 01:16:00,780
so it's not about a loss of

1795
01:16:05,990 --> 01:16:03,120
individuality it's not a loss of free

1796
01:16:10,070 --> 01:16:06,000
will it's just a higher ability to

1797
01:16:13,270 --> 01:16:10,080
empathize with another human being to to

1798
01:16:15,709 --> 01:16:13,280
suffer with another human being

1799
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:15,719
so we know what it is to be in somebody

1800
01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:17,520
else's position

1801
01:16:20,930 --> 01:16:19,679
um yeah but Bernardo maybe I didn't give

1802
01:16:22,250 --> 01:16:20,940
you the advantage of it maybe you just

1803
01:16:23,870 --> 01:16:22,260
don't know this you're hitting you cold

1804
01:16:26,510 --> 01:16:23,880
with it are you familiar with Dean

1805
01:16:28,490 --> 01:16:26,520
rayden's biotech startup in Idaho he's

1806
01:16:32,090 --> 01:16:28,500
moved from California

1807
01:16:35,270 --> 01:16:32,100
okay this is what he is pursuing this is

1808
01:16:36,770 --> 01:16:35,280
not hypothetical kind of no they are in

1809
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:36,780
the middle of it raised millions of

1810
01:16:40,070 --> 01:16:38,880
dollars let me pull it up just so you

1811
01:16:42,590 --> 01:16:40,080
can see it and then we don't even have

1812
01:16:46,189 --> 01:16:42,600
to talk about it I believe you

1813
01:16:48,290 --> 01:16:46,199
so anyways it's called neurogenetics and

1814
01:16:52,370 --> 01:16:48,300
that is his company and that's what they

1815
01:16:54,410 --> 01:16:52,380
seek to do and he's using all of his

1816
01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:54,420
knowledge about you know because part of

1817
01:16:58,729 --> 01:16:56,640
what they derive from all the work that

1818
01:17:00,950 --> 01:16:58,739
he's done is they start getting genetic

1819
01:17:03,770 --> 01:17:00,960
markers on this stuff genetic markers

1820
01:17:06,649 --> 01:17:03,780
for all sorts of parapsychological work

1821
01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:06,659
and that's the future but the immediate

1822
01:17:12,890 --> 01:17:09,600
thing for him is let's do a vaccine

1823
01:17:15,770 --> 01:17:12,900
delivered uh virus that will change your

1824
01:17:18,290 --> 01:17:15,780
DNA and shape it into this way that we

1825
01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:18,300
want that is extremely troubling that is

1826
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:21,120
transhumanism that is what is that is

1827
01:17:25,430 --> 01:17:23,760
how the agenda is being sold and I think

1828
01:17:28,430 --> 01:17:25,440
when when you write and talk about

1829
01:17:30,649 --> 01:17:28,440
identity crisis and the problem in in

1830
01:17:32,510 --> 01:17:30,659
your country and these crazy laws that

1831
01:17:34,189 --> 01:17:32,520
are being passed that you say hey I

1832
01:17:36,470 --> 01:17:34,199
understand the spirit of it I'm all for

1833
01:17:38,630 --> 01:17:36,480
social justice again what I think you're

1834
01:17:41,030 --> 01:17:38,640
not seeing what you seem to be blinded

1835
01:17:44,450 --> 01:17:41,040
to is that there is an agenda behind

1836
01:17:47,110 --> 01:17:44,460
that that is a unmistakably marching

1837
01:17:50,689 --> 01:17:47,120
forward in a very particular direction

1838
01:17:54,229 --> 01:17:50,699
and that direction is to make you less

1839
01:17:56,689 --> 01:17:54,239
human and for someone to be in control

1840
01:17:59,450 --> 01:17:56,699
of the direction that that's going so

1841
01:18:01,970 --> 01:17:59,460
it's it's not a hypothetical for Dean he

1842
01:18:04,070 --> 01:18:01,980
is as deep sold his house in California

1843
01:18:07,729 --> 01:18:04,080
took the millions of dollars and is in

1844
01:18:10,669 --> 01:18:07,739
Idaho developing his biotech company

1845
01:18:12,169 --> 01:18:10,679
if I separate it from Dean for the

1846
01:18:13,790 --> 01:18:12,179
moment and I and I just speak

1847
01:18:17,750 --> 01:18:13,800
generically

1848
01:18:20,090 --> 01:18:17,760
I do find it troubling the attempt to

1849
01:18:23,030 --> 01:18:20,100
influence what is essentially human

1850
01:18:25,870 --> 01:18:23,040
personality human mental life

1851
01:18:28,610 --> 01:18:25,880
through a

1852
01:18:30,470 --> 01:18:28,620
physiological delivery mechanism which

1853
01:18:32,030 --> 01:18:30,480
is essentially what psychoactive drugs

1854
01:18:34,970 --> 01:18:32,040
try to do

1855
01:18:37,729 --> 01:18:34,980
and our success in doing that has been

1856
01:18:40,189 --> 01:18:37,739
largely empirical in other words we

1857
01:18:42,350 --> 01:18:40,199
don't really know how physiology and

1858
01:18:44,649 --> 01:18:42,360
personality traits are mental inner life

1859
01:18:48,229 --> 01:18:44,659
really correlate

1860
01:18:50,870 --> 01:18:48,239
Psychiatry has failed to find a

1861
01:18:55,070 --> 01:18:50,880
physiological even anatomical correlates

1862
01:18:57,770 --> 01:18:55,080
to the most common mental disorders that

1863
01:18:59,990 --> 01:18:57,780
afflict people worldwide so our

1864
01:19:02,090 --> 01:19:00,000
understanding of how these two domains

1865
01:19:04,970 --> 01:19:02,100
influence one another is very limited

1866
01:19:07,729 --> 01:19:04,980
and that's why I think it is troubling

1867
01:19:09,169 --> 01:19:07,739
not speaking of Dean specifically

1868
01:19:11,149 --> 01:19:09,179
because I I don't know anything about

1869
01:19:13,010 --> 01:19:11,159
this company it's the first time I hear

1870
01:19:17,090 --> 01:19:13,020
about it although I believe you that he

1871
01:19:20,050 --> 01:19:17,100
has done it but speaking in general I

1872
01:19:23,450 --> 01:19:20,060
think it's troubling to try to

1873
01:19:26,149 --> 01:19:23,460
influence mental inner life personality

1874
01:19:28,490 --> 01:19:26,159
traits through a physiological delivery

1875
01:19:31,370 --> 01:19:28,500
mechanism because we simply do not know

1876
01:19:33,050 --> 01:19:31,380
enough we just do not know enough about

1877
01:19:34,550 --> 01:19:33,060
how these two domains play with one

1878
01:19:35,330 --> 01:19:34,560
another

1879
01:19:37,870 --> 01:19:35,340
um

1880
01:19:41,570 --> 01:19:37,880
so see I will consider that

1881
01:19:45,530 --> 01:19:41,580
generically this is a troubling thing to

1882
01:19:47,990 --> 01:19:45,540
attempt but I I will insist that the

1883
01:19:49,669 --> 01:19:48,000
call forget the delivery mechanism

1884
01:19:51,169 --> 01:19:49,679
forget his company

1885
01:19:55,430 --> 01:19:51,179
the call

1886
01:19:57,950 --> 01:19:55,440
for our civilization to try to develop

1887
01:20:00,830 --> 01:19:57,960
our potential for empathy

1888
01:20:03,709 --> 01:20:00,840
is timely is important and it doesn't

1889
01:20:06,649 --> 01:20:03,719
reduce our Humanity on the contrary it

1890
01:20:09,169 --> 01:20:06,659
increases our our Humanity a human that

1891
01:20:10,550 --> 01:20:09,179
isn't empathic is a human that lacks

1892
01:20:12,470 --> 01:20:10,560
humanity and we have a name for that

1893
01:20:16,490 --> 01:20:12,480
it's called a psychopath

1894
01:20:19,669 --> 01:20:16,500
and it's considered a disorder so more

1895
01:20:22,729 --> 01:20:19,679
empathy I'm all for it but I think there

1896
01:20:26,570 --> 01:20:22,739
are much more reliable time-honored less

1897
01:20:29,689 --> 01:20:26,580
risky ways to try to evoke that in our

1898
01:20:32,390 --> 01:20:29,699
society than a physiological delivery

1899
01:20:35,870 --> 01:20:32,400
mechanism that we just do not understand

1900
01:20:38,510 --> 01:20:35,880
yet that that sounds scary to me well

1901
01:20:41,470 --> 01:20:38,520
and I would suggest that it's deeper

1902
01:20:45,169 --> 01:20:41,480
than that and it relates directly back

1903
01:20:47,810 --> 01:20:45,179
to the core the heart the essence of

1904
01:20:49,490 --> 01:20:47,820
your work and what you're doing at the

1905
01:20:52,070 --> 01:20:49,500
Essentia foundation and what we talked

1906
01:20:55,370 --> 01:20:52,080
about at the beginning because I think

1907
01:20:57,169 --> 01:20:55,380
we can never forget the part that you

1908
01:20:59,770 --> 01:20:57,179
mentioned at the very beginning Bernardo

1909
01:21:03,169 --> 01:20:59,780
which is that you are intentionally

1910
01:21:06,890 --> 01:21:03,179
sidelining the spiritual aspect to all

1911
01:21:10,310 --> 01:21:06,900
of this in order to advance a paradigm

1912
01:21:11,890 --> 01:21:10,320
changing scientifically confined

1913
01:21:15,410 --> 01:21:11,900
explanation

1914
01:21:17,930 --> 01:21:15,420
Dean has jumped the shark he has not

1915
01:21:20,330 --> 01:21:17,940
only sidelined that but he's pretending

1916
01:21:23,330 --> 01:21:20,340
putting his fingers in his ears and

1917
01:21:27,470 --> 01:21:23,340
pretending that such a sensitivity or a

1918
01:21:31,189 --> 01:21:27,480
sensibility isn't necessary and it is

1919
01:21:33,950 --> 01:21:31,199
God Is Watching whether that God is from

1920
01:21:36,410 --> 01:21:33,960
within or whether that God is external

1921
01:21:38,990 --> 01:21:36,420
there is a hierarchy of to Consciousness

1922
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:39,000
there is free will we all have an

1923
01:21:45,830 --> 01:21:41,520
understanding of what is right and wrong

1924
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:45,840
even if that eventually merges into a

1925
01:21:50,450 --> 01:21:48,480
global Consciousness there is what what

1926
01:21:53,630 --> 01:21:50,460
the near-death experience science tells

1927
01:21:56,990 --> 01:21:53,640
us what so much other wisdom Traditions

1928
01:21:59,630 --> 01:21:57,000
tell us is that we have the ability to

1929
01:22:03,050 --> 01:21:59,640
steer this ship and we can't pretend

1930
01:22:05,630 --> 01:22:03,060
that we don't so I wonder if you want to

1931
01:22:09,050 --> 01:22:05,640
speak for a minute about

1932
01:22:11,090 --> 01:22:09,060
how spirituality and our our

1933
01:22:13,370 --> 01:22:11,100
understanding of spirituality of

1934
01:22:15,830 --> 01:22:13,380
non-religious from the light the the

1935
01:22:19,189 --> 01:22:15,840
love that rises up within us how that

1936
01:22:22,850 --> 01:22:20,930
you know I think what we've learned

1937
01:22:25,370 --> 01:22:22,860
after two thousand years of Christianity

1938
01:22:26,870 --> 01:22:25,380
is that preaching alone doesn't help we

1939
01:22:29,990 --> 01:22:26,880
wouldn't be doing what we are doing now

1940
01:22:33,050 --> 01:22:30,000
if preaching alone helped we wouldn't

1941
01:22:35,330 --> 01:22:33,060
have one Sovereign Nation barbarically

1942
01:22:38,930 --> 01:22:35,340
invading another Sovereign Nation both

1943
01:22:41,870 --> 01:22:38,940
of which are Orthodox Christians

1944
01:22:44,810 --> 01:22:41,880
um so it takes more than that what more

1945
01:22:47,209 --> 01:22:44,820
how much more I don't know but I will

1946
01:22:49,970 --> 01:22:47,219
say this I the worst thing that has

1947
01:22:53,930 --> 01:22:49,980
happened in the history of spirituality

1948
01:22:56,149 --> 01:22:53,940
is the word spirituality because it has

1949
01:22:58,850 --> 01:22:56,159
created a category for it that is

1950
01:23:00,890 --> 01:22:58,860
different from reality the moment we use

1951
01:23:04,250 --> 01:23:00,900
the word spirituality we sort of

1952
01:23:07,430 --> 01:23:04,260
separate it from reality and I'm

1953
01:23:10,310 --> 01:23:07,440
interested in reality and I think the

1954
01:23:12,770 --> 01:23:10,320
properties of reality are such that it

1955
01:23:15,470 --> 01:23:12,780
has many of the characteristics that go

1956
01:23:17,689 --> 01:23:15,480
under the word spirituality in our

1957
01:23:20,090 --> 01:23:17,699
culture but it's reality I'm talking

1958
01:23:22,610 --> 01:23:20,100
about if you know what I mean I think

1959
01:23:24,169 --> 01:23:22,620
reality is one in which the subjectivity

1960
01:23:27,470 --> 01:23:24,179
in all of us is one and the same

1961
01:23:30,229 --> 01:23:27,480
subjectivity in which empathy is a

1962
01:23:32,470 --> 01:23:30,239
natural a natural personality trait of

1963
01:23:35,149 --> 01:23:32,480
human beings that hasn't been

1964
01:23:37,630 --> 01:23:35,159
repressed through cultural narratives

1965
01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:37,640
that guide our lives today

1966
01:23:42,649 --> 01:23:40,320
hasn't been repressed by the materialist

1967
01:23:44,930 --> 01:23:42,659
narrative that tells you your life is

1968
01:23:47,330 --> 01:23:44,940
completely meaningless and the best you

1969
01:23:49,430 --> 01:23:47,340
can do is just buy stuff in an addictive

1970
01:23:51,770 --> 01:23:49,440
pattern of behavior because at the end

1971
01:23:54,110 --> 01:23:51,780
it's often anyway so you might as well

1972
01:23:56,090 --> 01:23:54,120
have fun while you can I think this is

1973
01:23:57,669 --> 01:23:56,100
the disaster it's that narrative that

1974
01:23:59,750 --> 01:23:57,679
oppresses

1975
01:24:01,669 --> 01:23:59,760
personality traits and the

1976
01:24:05,390 --> 01:24:01,679
characteristics of our inner life that

1977
01:24:09,770 --> 01:24:05,400
are just natural now how do we

1978
01:24:13,310 --> 01:24:09,780
how do we allow those natural spiritual

1979
01:24:15,709 --> 01:24:13,320
but real characteristics to manifest how

1980
01:24:17,630 --> 01:24:15,719
do we expand our relationship with the

1981
01:24:20,169 --> 01:24:17,640
reality around us in a way that what we

1982
01:24:24,709 --> 01:24:20,179
call spirituality becomes self-evident

1983
01:24:27,050 --> 01:24:24,719
and as present as the sun up in the sky

1984
01:24:29,510 --> 01:24:27,060
um I don't know but I think it has a lot

1985
01:24:31,270 --> 01:24:29,520
to do with changing the narrative and

1986
01:24:35,750 --> 01:24:31,280
the narrative today

1987
01:24:38,930 --> 01:24:35,760
is extremely unhealthy it's a narrative

1988
01:24:42,410 --> 01:24:38,940
in which we try to deal with our

1989
01:24:46,669 --> 01:24:42,420
anxieties particularly the fear of death

1990
01:24:48,229 --> 01:24:46,679
by eliminating meaning along with it so

1991
01:24:50,030 --> 01:24:48,239
we get rid of the fear of death because

1992
01:24:52,490 --> 01:24:50,040
when you're dead you're dead there is no

1993
01:24:55,310 --> 01:24:52,500
one there to feel Pain Suffer or even be

1994
01:24:59,750 --> 01:24:55,320
afraid but to get rid of meaning along

1995
01:25:00,830 --> 01:24:59,760
with it and I think that price which may

1996
01:25:06,350 --> 01:25:00,840
have

1997
01:25:08,630 --> 01:25:06,360
felt like a reasonable price to pay

1998
01:25:10,130 --> 01:25:08,640
right now it's completely unreasonable

1999
01:25:11,750 --> 01:25:10,140
because it's destroying us and it's

2000
01:25:13,910 --> 01:25:11,760
making us destroy the world and the

2001
01:25:17,149 --> 01:25:13,920
ecosystem is around us and destroy each

2002
01:25:21,110 --> 01:25:17,159
other and ourselves and emerging from

2003
01:25:22,490 --> 01:25:21,120
that is is extremely urgent uh yes we

2004
01:25:25,070 --> 01:25:22,500
have to take care of our physical

2005
01:25:27,290 --> 01:25:25,080
survival because if we are not alive

2006
01:25:29,030 --> 01:25:27,300
then then there's nothing we can do

2007
01:25:31,130 --> 01:25:29,040
because you know once the dissociation

2008
01:25:33,350 --> 01:25:31,140
ends and we are dead

2009
01:25:35,450 --> 01:25:33,360
um yes we are still who we have always

2010
01:25:37,810 --> 01:25:35,460
been but we can't play a role in this

2011
01:25:41,689 --> 01:25:37,820
Dynamics here in this dream we call Life

2012
01:25:44,030 --> 01:25:41,699
uh but beyond staying alive and healthy

2013
01:25:46,189 --> 01:25:44,040
I think that's the most important and

2014
01:25:50,149 --> 01:25:46,199
most urgent challenge we have ahead of

2015
01:25:51,470 --> 01:25:50,159
us is how do we get rid of a addictive

2016
01:25:54,830 --> 01:25:51,480
and that's why it's so difficult to get

2017
01:25:56,689 --> 01:25:54,840
rid of but suicidal narrative that is

2018
01:26:00,169 --> 01:25:56,699
oppressing our nature is oppressing our

2019
01:26:01,970 --> 01:26:00,179
humanity and if you ask me how to do

2020
01:26:03,709 --> 01:26:01,980
that I don't know the answer the only

2021
01:26:06,110 --> 01:26:03,719
answer I have is every day I wake up in

2022
01:26:07,970 --> 01:26:06,120
the morning I know what I have to

2023
01:26:10,129 --> 01:26:07,980
contribute on that day

2024
01:26:12,470 --> 01:26:10,139
and I know that the next day it will be

2025
01:26:14,149 --> 01:26:12,480
the same thing I take my cues from

2026
01:26:16,370 --> 01:26:14,159
nature from the movements of the

2027
01:26:18,229 --> 01:26:16,380
impersonal within me I know my life's

2028
01:26:20,270 --> 01:26:18,239
not about me nobody's life is about them

2029
01:26:22,129 --> 01:26:20,280
our life is not about are not about

2030
01:26:24,470 --> 01:26:22,139
ourselves we are products of nature it's

2031
01:26:26,149 --> 01:26:24,480
about the great dance of Nature and I

2032
01:26:26,930 --> 01:26:26,159
take my cue from that every day in the

2033
01:26:29,390 --> 01:26:26,940
morning

2034
01:26:31,910 --> 01:26:29,400
and I try not to take responsibility for

2035
01:26:33,890 --> 01:26:31,920
the end result because who is my ego to

2036
01:26:36,530 --> 01:26:33,900
take responsibility for the end result I

2037
01:26:38,990 --> 01:26:36,540
only take responsibility from my Nero

2038
01:26:40,370 --> 01:26:39,000
microscopic contribution and every day I

2039
01:26:43,250 --> 01:26:40,380
wake up in the morning I know what to do

2040
01:26:45,709 --> 01:26:43,260
that day and that's enough for me beyond

2041
01:26:47,870 --> 01:26:45,719
that I cross my fingers and I pray I

2042
01:26:49,850 --> 01:26:47,880
pray because I believe I believe in God

2043
01:26:51,590 --> 01:26:49,860
I'm more comfortable using the G word

2044
01:26:54,070 --> 01:26:51,600
that I didn't want to use in our

2045
01:26:57,530 --> 01:26:54,080
previous interviews Alex I decided that

2046
01:26:59,450 --> 01:26:57,540
you know it's it's um it's a silly game

2047
01:27:01,070 --> 01:26:59,460
to try to stay away from it because

2048
01:27:03,169 --> 01:27:01,080
everything I've been talking about

2049
01:27:05,990 --> 01:27:03,179
people can coupled to the notion of the

2050
01:27:08,390 --> 01:27:06,000
Divinity anyway so yeah I pray to God

2051
01:27:10,610 --> 01:27:08,400
that we survived this I think it's it's

2052
01:27:12,890 --> 01:27:10,620
absolutely wonderful the way you strung

2053
01:27:16,129 --> 01:27:12,900
together so many of the concepts that

2054
01:27:19,310 --> 01:27:16,139
we're talking about in a very very lucid

2055
01:27:22,610 --> 01:27:19,320
and Powerful way in terms of what the

2056
01:27:25,070 --> 01:27:22,620
agenda is what the motivation is going

2057
01:27:27,770 --> 01:27:25,080
forward in the Paradigm change and how

2058
01:27:30,229 --> 01:27:27,780
the Paradigm change that you are still

2059
01:27:32,750 --> 01:27:30,239
in the middle of engaged in that battle

2060
01:27:34,669 --> 01:27:32,760
how it is fundamental to all the stuff

2061
01:27:36,229 --> 01:27:34,679
that we are talking about and while we

2062
01:27:38,510 --> 01:27:36,239
have this deep agreement on that level

2063
01:27:40,010 --> 01:27:38,520
so I was going to wrap it up there

2064
01:27:43,370 --> 01:27:40,020
because that's just the perfect way to

2065
01:27:44,870 --> 01:27:43,380
end it but tell us about the God thing

2066
01:27:46,010 --> 01:27:44,880
and how you understand that because

2067
01:27:47,990 --> 01:27:46,020
that's going to throw a lot of people

2068
01:27:50,810 --> 01:27:48,000
for a loop obviously it's a hardly

2069
01:27:54,110 --> 01:27:50,820
charged word how are you processing the

2070
01:27:56,450 --> 01:27:54,120
idea of what I always call the hierarchy

2071
01:27:58,729 --> 01:27:56,460
of Consciousness kind of thing

2072
01:28:01,070 --> 01:27:58,739
if I speak analytically and I have this

2073
01:28:03,229 --> 01:28:01,080
notion of a field of subjectivity that

2074
01:28:05,689 --> 01:28:03,239
underlies all nature of which we are

2075
01:28:07,669 --> 01:28:05,699
just dissociated mental complexes so

2076
01:28:09,830 --> 01:28:07,679
there is a unity and that unit is mental

2077
01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:09,840
there is one mind underlying all nature

2078
01:28:13,610 --> 01:28:11,760
and everything happens within that in

2079
01:28:15,709 --> 01:28:13,620
what we call the physical world is just

2080
01:28:17,990 --> 01:28:15,719
how mental processes outside our

2081
01:28:21,050 --> 01:28:18,000
individual Minds present themselves to

2082
01:28:25,729 --> 01:28:21,060
our observation so there is this idea of

2083
01:28:28,550 --> 01:28:25,739
an omniscient Unity underlying of nature

2084
01:28:31,010 --> 01:28:28,560
that has been throughout the history of

2085
01:28:33,050 --> 01:28:31,020
philosophy and religion associated with

2086
01:28:35,570 --> 01:28:33,060
the concept of a divinity

2087
01:28:38,510 --> 01:28:35,580
and although I have steered away for

2088
01:28:40,129 --> 01:28:38,520
many years from the word God because

2089
01:28:42,350 --> 01:28:40,139
there are probably seven and a half

2090
01:28:44,570 --> 01:28:42,360
billion different definitions of God out

2091
01:28:47,930 --> 01:28:44,580
there you know every person has his or

2092
01:28:50,270 --> 01:28:47,940
her own or their own view of God of a

2093
01:28:51,890 --> 01:28:50,280
Divinity so if I use the word I don't

2094
01:28:55,010 --> 01:28:51,900
know how people will interpret it that's

2095
01:28:58,250 --> 01:28:55,020
that's why I sort of stayed clear steer

2096
01:29:01,490 --> 01:28:58,260
clear from that word and used more uh

2097
01:29:02,990 --> 01:29:01,500
unambiguous uh words like

2098
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:03,000
um especially Unbound field of

2099
01:29:08,570 --> 01:29:05,040
subjectivity underlying our own nature

2100
01:29:11,350 --> 01:29:08,580
irreducible and and so on

2101
01:29:14,570 --> 01:29:11,360
um at the end of the day we are humans

2102
01:29:17,149 --> 01:29:14,580
and humans are not just analytic

2103
01:29:20,390 --> 01:29:17,159
philosophers humans speak from the heart

2104
01:29:22,970 --> 01:29:20,400
not only from the mind and they don't

2105
01:29:25,310 --> 01:29:22,980
just look for conceptually unambiguous

2106
01:29:28,189 --> 01:29:25,320
and clear terminology they use

2107
01:29:29,990 --> 01:29:28,199
terminology that evokes emotion and from

2108
01:29:32,990 --> 01:29:30,000
that perspective if the word God is

2109
01:29:35,390 --> 01:29:33,000
better than a specially Unbound field of

2110
01:29:38,750 --> 01:29:35,400
subjectivity that underlies all nature

2111
01:29:41,090 --> 01:29:38,760
irreducibly so since I'm talking to

2112
01:29:44,390 --> 01:29:41,100
people in general not just analytic

2113
01:29:46,910 --> 01:29:44,400
philosophers or scientists today I am in

2114
01:29:48,050 --> 01:29:46,920
my you know going to start my 49th year

2115
01:29:50,570 --> 01:29:48,060
soon

2116
01:29:52,850 --> 01:29:50,580
I decided that I'm not going to play

2117
01:29:54,649 --> 01:29:52,860
that precious game anymore you know I

2118
01:29:56,209 --> 01:29:54,659
would talk about God and my God is not

2119
01:29:59,149 --> 01:29:56,219
the same as your God I don't understand

2120
01:30:01,250 --> 01:29:59,159
it the same way as you do uh but I will

2121
01:30:04,370 --> 01:30:01,260
still use the word because the essence

2122
01:30:05,990 --> 01:30:04,380
the core is there anyway so now I'm

2123
01:30:08,570 --> 01:30:06,000
comfortable with it and I'm comfortable

2124
01:30:11,689 --> 01:30:08,580
in saying that yes I pray to God

2125
01:30:13,129 --> 01:30:11,699
but God may not always know what it is

2126
01:30:15,490 --> 01:30:13,139
doing

2127
01:30:18,470 --> 01:30:15,500
um but we may help

2128
01:30:22,310 --> 01:30:18,480
you know that's uh that's great to me

2129
01:30:25,790 --> 01:30:22,320
the interesting thing there is kind of

2130
01:30:29,629 --> 01:30:25,800
one level down because if I think it's

2131
01:30:30,770 --> 01:30:29,639
easy to get to the almost non-dual God

2132
01:30:32,770 --> 01:30:30,780
thing

2133
01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:32,780
it's the steps in between that are hard

2134
01:30:37,430 --> 01:30:35,760
so what are we doing with angels what

2135
01:30:38,629 --> 01:30:37,440
are we doing with Spirit guides what are

2136
01:30:42,070 --> 01:30:38,639
we doing with

2137
01:30:47,330 --> 01:30:42,080
you know all these hypothesized

2138
01:30:49,310 --> 01:30:47,340
Spiritual hierarchical Beings that pop

2139
01:30:51,709 --> 01:30:49,320
up again and again and that's the

2140
01:30:54,530 --> 01:30:51,719
problem I see with the God thing I think

2141
01:30:58,970 --> 01:30:54,540
it's pretty easy to get people on board

2142
01:31:01,850 --> 01:30:58,980
with the big God it's the steps in

2143
01:31:04,790 --> 01:31:01,860
between do you have any thoughts on that

2144
01:31:07,310 --> 01:31:04,800
oh that could be an interview in its own

2145
01:31:09,530 --> 01:31:07,320
Merit I can give you a heart answer and

2146
01:31:11,930 --> 01:31:09,540
or an analytic answer which one do you

2147
01:31:13,930 --> 01:31:11,940
prefer or do you want both oh always

2148
01:31:16,370 --> 01:31:13,940
both if I could get it

2149
01:31:19,550 --> 01:31:16,380
so start with the least important one

2150
01:31:22,790 --> 01:31:19,560
the analytic answer look our perceptual

2151
01:31:24,350 --> 01:31:22,800
apparatus has evolved over four billion

2152
01:31:27,890 --> 01:31:24,360
years of evolution

2153
01:31:29,629 --> 01:31:27,900
to pick out the elements and states of

2154
01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:29,639
reality that have a bearing on our

2155
01:31:33,590 --> 01:31:30,719
survival

2156
01:31:36,350 --> 01:31:33,600
that's what evolution is all about so we

2157
01:31:38,209 --> 01:31:36,360
discern and pick out the states of the

2158
01:31:40,669 --> 01:31:38,219
world around us that have a bearing on

2159
01:31:42,290 --> 01:31:40,679
our survival whatever is going on out

2160
01:31:44,990 --> 01:31:42,300
there that has no bearing to our

2161
01:31:48,169 --> 01:31:45,000
survival wouldn't have evolved there

2162
01:31:50,689 --> 01:31:48,179
would be no evolutionary drive to fix

2163
01:31:52,430 --> 01:31:50,699
that genetic characteristic to develop a

2164
01:31:54,709 --> 01:31:52,440
perceptual system that picks out things

2165
01:31:57,770 --> 01:31:54,719
that are Irrelevant for our survival it

2166
01:32:00,850 --> 01:31:57,780
wouldn't have happened in other words

2167
01:32:03,410 --> 01:32:00,860
it is a statistical

2168
01:32:05,750 --> 01:32:03,420
virtual certainty that there is a lot

2169
01:32:07,850 --> 01:32:05,760
more going on than what we can perceive

2170
01:32:10,250 --> 01:32:07,860
and then some people would say well but

2171
01:32:13,250 --> 01:32:10,260
we have telescopes and microscopes and

2172
01:32:15,950 --> 01:32:13,260
infrared sensors we we can actually now

2173
01:32:18,830 --> 01:32:15,960
pick out a lot more than our perceptual

2174
01:32:20,990 --> 01:32:18,840
apparatus allows us to do yes but notice

2175
01:32:23,330 --> 01:32:21,000
that all of that is still filtered out

2176
01:32:25,310 --> 01:32:23,340
through our perceptual apparatus because

2177
01:32:27,470 --> 01:32:25,320
we have to perceive the output of

2178
01:32:29,930 --> 01:32:27,480
telescopes and microscopes and infrared

2179
01:32:34,510 --> 01:32:29,940
sensors and all that so we are still

2180
01:32:37,790 --> 01:32:34,520
Limited in a paradigm paradigmatic way

2181
01:32:40,370 --> 01:32:37,800
by the parameters of our perceptual

2182
01:32:43,510 --> 01:32:40,380
apparatus as it evolved in other words

2183
01:32:46,490 --> 01:32:43,520
it's a virtual certainty that we are

2184
01:32:48,470 --> 01:32:46,500
blind to a lot of what's going on out

2185
01:32:51,530 --> 01:32:48,480
there because it simply does not have a

2186
01:32:53,270 --> 01:32:51,540
bearing on us could this extra lot of

2187
01:32:56,270 --> 01:32:53,280
what's going on out there that we don't

2188
01:32:59,629 --> 01:32:56,280
perceive that we don't even have words

2189
01:33:02,330 --> 01:32:59,639
or parameters or categories for could

2190
01:33:05,870 --> 01:33:02,340
that entail what has been metaphoric

2191
01:33:08,629 --> 01:33:05,880
metaphoric metaphorically called Angels

2192
01:33:11,390 --> 01:33:08,639
demons spiritual entities and all that

2193
01:33:13,629 --> 01:33:11,400
it would be silly to deny that it could

2194
01:33:16,370 --> 01:33:13,639
there could be other

2195
01:33:19,189 --> 01:33:16,380
dissociated complex C is in the mind of

2196
01:33:21,290 --> 01:33:19,199
nature that because they play out in a

2197
01:33:23,750 --> 01:33:21,300
way that has no bearing to the survival

2198
01:33:26,090 --> 01:33:23,760
of our own dissociative process our own

2199
01:33:29,330 --> 01:33:26,100
lives we didn't evolve to pick them out

2200
01:33:31,610 --> 01:33:29,340
we don't have parameters even to talk

2201
01:33:33,970 --> 01:33:31,620
about them or conceive of them to

2202
01:33:36,890 --> 01:33:33,980
imagine them they can be literally

2203
01:33:39,770 --> 01:33:36,900
there's a wonderful word in English that

2204
01:33:42,169 --> 01:33:39,780
escapes me now incommensurable

2205
01:33:45,590 --> 01:33:42,179
they can be literally incommensible to

2206
01:33:47,390 --> 01:33:45,600
to all of with all of our categories and

2207
01:33:50,870 --> 01:33:47,400
we would be therefore completely blind

2208
01:33:52,610 --> 01:33:50,880
to them so it is it is not only a

2209
01:33:55,070 --> 01:33:52,620
possibility I would say it's statistical

2210
01:33:56,990 --> 01:33:55,080
certainty that there is stuff going on

2211
01:33:58,010 --> 01:33:57,000
that we have no idea of and it may

2212
01:34:00,830 --> 01:33:58,020
include

2213
01:34:02,570 --> 01:34:00,840
what people call spiritual entities now

2214
01:34:04,550 --> 01:34:02,580
the hard answer

2215
01:34:06,530 --> 01:34:04,560
uh

2216
01:34:09,950 --> 01:34:06,540
even Within Me

2217
01:34:13,370 --> 01:34:09,960
if I introspect deeply

2218
01:34:15,649 --> 01:34:13,380
you I can discern elements of my own

2219
01:34:17,990 --> 01:34:15,659
mind of my own personality that have a

2220
01:34:20,649 --> 01:34:18,000
degree of autonomy and sometimes

2221
01:34:24,530 --> 01:34:20,659
sometimes wage war against one another

2222
01:34:27,470 --> 01:34:24,540
any addict knows this there is the demon

2223
01:34:31,189 --> 01:34:27,480
of the addiction and the angel of the

2224
01:34:33,110 --> 01:34:31,199
Cure that's trying to straighten you up

2225
01:34:35,510 --> 01:34:33,120
um every time you experience cognitive

2226
01:34:38,510 --> 01:34:35,520
dissonance every time you repress

2227
01:34:41,330 --> 01:34:38,520
something a trauma an idea every time

2228
01:34:43,490 --> 01:34:41,340
you're ashamed of yourself these are all

2229
01:34:45,290 --> 01:34:43,500
entities within the bus we call

2230
01:34:47,450 --> 01:34:45,300
ourselves and they are fighting one

2231
01:34:49,430 --> 01:34:47,460
another and they are pushing the rope in

2232
01:34:51,470 --> 01:34:49,440
their own Direction

2233
01:34:53,450 --> 01:34:51,480
um and sometimes one of them wins

2234
01:34:55,550 --> 01:34:53,460
sometimes the other wins there is always

2235
01:34:57,169 --> 01:34:55,560
a demon on one shoulder and an angel on

2236
01:34:58,910 --> 01:34:57,179
the left shoulder and this is only

2237
01:35:01,550 --> 01:34:58,920
within my own mind

2238
01:35:03,129 --> 01:35:01,560
could there be transpersonal mental

2239
01:35:05,870 --> 01:35:03,139
entities that are playing this game

2240
01:35:07,490 --> 01:35:05,880
based on my own introspection I would

2241
01:35:09,709 --> 01:35:07,500
say yes there is stuff that happens

2242
01:35:12,470 --> 01:35:09,719
within me that I look carefully at and I

2243
01:35:15,050 --> 01:35:12,480
think there is no way this is mine

2244
01:35:17,330 --> 01:35:15,060
this is alien stuff this is strange

2245
01:35:19,910 --> 01:35:17,340
stuff you know that this doesn't come

2246
01:35:21,470 --> 01:35:19,920
from me it's passing through me and I

2247
01:35:24,709 --> 01:35:21,480
happen to recognize it when I'm

2248
01:35:27,229 --> 01:35:24,719
introspecting carefully I think most

2249
01:35:29,750 --> 01:35:27,239
people would just blame themselves when

2250
01:35:33,070 --> 01:35:29,760
when they are overwhelmed by a

2251
01:35:35,689 --> 01:35:33,080
a wave of the impersonal within them

2252
01:35:37,370 --> 01:35:35,699
because of the current cultural

2253
01:35:39,050 --> 01:35:37,380
Narrative of materialism that whatever

2254
01:35:41,510 --> 01:35:39,060
happens in your mind is a product of

2255
01:35:43,430 --> 01:35:41,520
your brain and therefore it is you do

2256
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:43,440
you blame themselves for that who are in

2257
01:35:47,330 --> 01:35:44,400
fact

2258
01:35:49,189 --> 01:35:47,340
it may not it may be a tsunami coming

2259
01:35:52,310 --> 01:35:49,199
from somewhere else and you may be

2260
01:35:54,410 --> 01:35:52,320
powerless to defend against that and it

2261
01:35:56,390 --> 01:35:54,420
overwhelms you and it's not you and you

2262
01:35:58,610 --> 01:35:56,400
can still take moral High Ground And of

2263
01:36:01,070 --> 01:35:58,620
course that end gets into a discussion

2264
01:36:03,110 --> 01:36:01,080
about you know how do we Define legal

2265
01:36:05,689 --> 01:36:03,120
responsibility criminal responsibility

2266
01:36:07,550 --> 01:36:05,699
could this be used as a defense and it's

2267
01:36:10,729 --> 01:36:07,560
all very complicated but I do

2268
01:36:12,709 --> 01:36:10,739
acknowledge the impersonal operating in

2269
01:36:15,290 --> 01:36:12,719
ways that are too subtle for us to even

2270
01:36:18,649 --> 01:36:15,300
conceive off let alone perceive

2271
01:36:21,169 --> 01:36:18,659
as a very nuanced and uh beautiful

2272
01:36:25,129 --> 01:36:21,179
beautiful answer which is what we'd

2273
01:36:27,530 --> 01:36:25,139
expect you're the master after all

2274
01:36:30,110 --> 01:36:27,540
how do we stay in touch how do we find

2275
01:36:32,689 --> 01:36:30,120
out what you're up to follow you take

2276
01:36:36,050 --> 01:36:32,699
your course should people take your

2277
01:36:37,790 --> 01:36:36,060
course analytic idealism if they are

2278
01:36:40,490 --> 01:36:37,800
interested in this stuff take the course

2279
01:36:42,830 --> 01:36:40,500
first it is free you don't even need to

2280
01:36:45,350 --> 01:36:42,840
register there is no registration well

2281
01:36:46,729 --> 01:36:45,360
paywall anything it's six hours of

2282
01:36:50,030 --> 01:36:46,739
material we don't need to watch it in

2283
01:36:51,470 --> 01:36:50,040
one go watch a little bit at a time and

2284
01:36:54,050 --> 01:36:51,480
I think you should do that before even

2285
01:36:56,090 --> 01:36:54,060
buy the first book because then you have

2286
01:36:58,850 --> 01:36:56,100
to pay money because my Publishers do

2287
01:37:00,410 --> 01:36:58,860
ask for money and I publish with an

2288
01:37:03,410 --> 01:37:00,420
official publisher because otherwise I'm

2289
01:37:05,090 --> 01:37:03,420
not taken seriously but yeah you go to

2290
01:37:06,430 --> 01:37:05,100
the Essentia Foundation website there is

2291
01:37:08,530 --> 01:37:06,440
a lot of free stuff you go to

2292
01:37:12,490 --> 01:37:08,540
bernardocastrop.com my personal website

2293
01:37:15,410 --> 01:37:12,500
most of it is free videos interviews

2294
01:37:16,910 --> 01:37:15,420
podcasts all kinds of things so yeah

2295
01:37:18,169 --> 01:37:16,920
that's where you should go before you

2296
01:37:20,450 --> 01:37:18,179
spend your money

2297
01:37:23,870 --> 01:37:20,460
and then there's the books

2298
01:37:26,570 --> 01:37:23,880
what's coming what's coming up in in the

2299
01:37:29,090 --> 01:37:26,580
book area do you have anything yes I

2300
01:37:31,490 --> 01:37:29,100
just agreed with my Publishers

2301
01:37:33,110 --> 01:37:31,500
um to write a new book that will be

2302
01:37:36,050 --> 01:37:33,120
tentatively titled

2303
01:37:39,530 --> 01:37:36,060
um analytic idealism in a nutshell

2304
01:37:41,510 --> 01:37:39,540
and you know it will not be very new

2305
01:37:43,850 --> 01:37:41,520
material if you if you've read my

2306
01:37:46,550 --> 01:37:43,860
previous 10 books uh but it will be an

2307
01:37:49,970 --> 01:37:46,560
attempt to sort of encapsulate that in

2308
01:37:52,370 --> 01:37:49,980
in as straightforward and summarized

2309
01:37:54,830 --> 01:37:52,380
story as possible without defacing it

2310
01:37:56,570 --> 01:37:54,840
without doing Injustice to it so it will

2311
01:37:59,149 --> 01:37:56,580
probably be a short book I'm working on

2312
01:38:01,370 --> 01:37:59,159
it and beyond that there is another book

2313
01:38:04,070 --> 01:38:01,380
in my head I don't know the title yet

2314
01:38:06,350 --> 01:38:04,080
but something will come through me at

2315
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:06,360
some point in the future

2316
01:38:10,729 --> 01:38:08,880
um that will have to do with our Western

2317
01:38:12,229 --> 01:38:10,739
inheritance

2318
01:38:15,169 --> 01:38:12,239
um I want to write about that because

2319
01:38:17,930 --> 01:38:15,179
it's an inheritance I was at odds with

2320
01:38:21,169 --> 01:38:17,940
for most of my life I was even ashamed

2321
01:38:23,450 --> 01:38:21,179
of for a certain period of my life and

2322
01:38:26,510 --> 01:38:23,460
with maturity I have come to accept it

2323
01:38:28,790 --> 01:38:26,520
with all the things that come with it

2324
01:38:30,709 --> 01:38:28,800
that I am ashamed of like the horrible

2325
01:38:33,350 --> 01:38:30,719
things Western societies have done to

2326
01:38:35,450 --> 01:38:33,360
others in the past and all that maturity

2327
01:38:35,990 --> 01:38:35,460
makes you accept that

2328
01:38:40,189 --> 01:38:36,000
um

2329
01:38:42,110 --> 01:38:40,199
not in a in a new responsible way but

2330
01:38:45,950 --> 01:38:42,120
you accept that part of your inheritance

2331
01:38:49,129 --> 01:38:45,960
is dark and you don't give it free reign

2332
01:38:51,169 --> 01:38:49,139
but you you give it a right to exist the

2333
01:38:53,570 --> 01:38:51,179
past exists

2334
01:38:56,689 --> 01:38:53,580
um and and attempts to focus on what's

2335
01:38:57,770 --> 01:38:56,699
good about our Western inheritance you

2336
01:39:00,050 --> 01:38:57,780
know beyond

2337
01:39:02,209 --> 01:39:00,060
advise a non-duality and all the

2338
01:39:04,310 --> 01:39:02,219
wonderful things from the East that have

2339
01:39:06,770 --> 01:39:04,320
kept us more or less sane during the

2340
01:39:09,290 --> 01:39:06,780
dark times of the 20th century and early

2341
01:39:12,290 --> 01:39:09,300
21st century there is something that is

2342
01:39:14,450 --> 01:39:12,300
ours there is there is there is a pot of

2343
01:39:16,010 --> 01:39:14,460
gold buried in the backyard we just have

2344
01:39:17,270 --> 01:39:16,020
to dig it and one day I want to write

2345
01:39:20,890 --> 01:39:17,280
about it

2346
01:39:24,649 --> 01:39:20,900
that's exciting can't wait for that one

2347
01:39:28,430 --> 01:39:24,659
well you've never disappointed you're

2348
01:39:31,250 --> 01:39:28,440
having a huge impact for one person it's

2349
01:39:33,950 --> 01:39:31,260
just unbelievable that where you pop up

2350
01:39:36,530 --> 01:39:33,960
nowadays you are really really

2351
01:39:39,649 --> 01:39:36,540
changing the game changing the Paradigm

2352
01:39:42,490 --> 01:39:39,659
and wow who could have ever hoped more

2353
01:39:45,470 --> 01:39:42,500
than that nature is doing it through me

2354
01:39:48,050 --> 01:39:45,480
awesome reconnecting with you Bernardo

2355
01:39:50,030 --> 01:39:48,060
will do it again soon it's great to talk

2356
01:39:52,669 --> 01:39:50,040
to you Alex it was the most Lively

2357
01:39:55,070 --> 01:39:52,679
discussion we've had so far

2358
01:39:57,290 --> 01:39:55,080
thanks again so much to Dr Bernardo

2359
01:40:00,470 --> 01:39:57,300
Castro for joining me today on skeptico

2360
01:40:03,110 --> 01:40:00,480
boy oh boy there's so many questions I

2361
01:40:05,689 --> 01:40:03,120
could uh I could jump off on this

2362
01:40:08,570 --> 01:40:05,699
interview as you might anticipate but I

2363
01:40:10,669 --> 01:40:08,580
guess I'll stick to the main one which

2364
01:40:14,810 --> 01:40:10,679
is what do you think the chances are

2365
01:40:17,030 --> 01:40:14,820
that Bernardo can lead us towards this

2366
01:40:20,270 --> 01:40:17,040
paradigm shift from scientific

2367
01:40:23,270 --> 01:40:20,280
materialism physicalism well what do you

2368
01:40:25,970 --> 01:40:23,280
think that process looks like and is he

2369
01:40:29,410 --> 01:40:25,980
somebody who can do it and given the

2370
01:40:33,110 --> 01:40:29,420
dialogue we had here is that make him

2371
01:40:36,470 --> 01:40:33,120
more likely or less likely to be able to

2372
01:40:38,450 --> 01:40:36,480
do it so if you are in tune with what

2373
01:40:40,070 --> 01:40:38,460
I'm saying then you'll know how to

2374
01:40:41,570 --> 01:40:40,080
answer that question and if you are in

2375
01:40:44,149 --> 01:40:41,580
tune with that question

2376
01:40:45,649 --> 01:40:44,159
and if you're in tune with this show and

2377
01:40:47,629 --> 01:40:45,659
if you're a thinker and you like to

2378
01:40:49,790 --> 01:40:47,639
think about this stuff and dialogue

2379
01:40:52,310 --> 01:40:49,800
about this stuff join me on the

2380
01:40:54,830 --> 01:40:52,320
skeptical Forum I'd love to talk to you

2381
01:40:57,950 --> 01:40:54,840
there's an interesting dialogue going on

2382
01:41:01,070 --> 01:40:57,960
over there I need really smart people

2383
01:41:03,410 --> 01:41:01,080
who can get to level three on this stuff

2384
01:41:05,470 --> 01:41:03,420
to join me if you are one of those

2385
01:41:08,090 --> 01:41:05,480
people and you think like I'm

2386
01:41:09,709 --> 01:41:08,100
overwhelmed with the amount of responses

2387
01:41:13,070 --> 01:41:09,719
that I get to this show which I

2388
01:41:15,470 --> 01:41:13,080
sometimes say familiar no I I'm not so

2389
01:41:17,750 --> 01:41:15,480
if you feel like you could add to this

2390
01:41:20,390 --> 01:41:17,760
dialogue this conversation in any way

2391
01:41:22,669 --> 01:41:20,400
then please join me I'd appreciate it

2392
01:41:23,450 --> 01:41:22,679
and I think you'll I think you'll enjoy

2393
01:41:29,030 --> 01:41:23,460
it

2394
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:29,040
episode until next time take care and